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Yes, another thread about Immortal Elves

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Mirikon

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« Reply #30 on: <05-24-14/2140:37> »
Agreed. All things mana-related are lessened during the downtime. So any children they had during that time may not have expressed as dragon-kin. As far as the immortal elves go, they're not really the 'sowing wild oats' type. Other than Harlequin, they're meticulous planners and are unlikely to delve too deeply into things like love. There are only a few children of the IEs I know of in this cycle, Aithne Oakforest's kid, Frosty, and Jenna Ni'Fairra (who is Alachia's kid, unless I'm way off base). Given that it has been roughly 80 years since mana started rising, that's not exactly big numbers.

However, a secret society, with the children of Denairastas at its core could have survived until the present day. The 'dragon-kin' bit may not have carried on, but the teachings and such could definitely be alive, especially if Denairastas himself is still alive somewhere.
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Furious Trope

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« Reply #31 on: <05-24-14/2237:58> »
Lots to chew on here.

I like the idea most of the immortal elves are less inclined towards the master plotting BS embodied by Ehran the Scribe/Great Dragons.

That was actually one of the things which drew me to Harlequin when I first read through Harlequin/Harlequin's Back. And why Frosty's description of his is in Street Legend Supplemental is one of my favorite bits of SR4.

On any timeline as long as an immortal's life, trying to manage macro-manipulations is bound to become unsustainable.

Where did they say immortal elves were descended from dragons?
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Senko

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« Reply #32 on: <05-25-14/0121:49> »
One of the earthdawn books, they're trying to cut ties wherever possible but some are too embeded e.g. the origin of the immortal elves and humans, possibly other races.

EDIT
If Denny's still around and given he was already exiled who's to say the upper circles aren't all immortal as a result of his actions? On the other hand I again refer to my own thread where it was mentioned that the head of the black lodge was an immortal human.

So I have my explanation anyone can be an immortal elf/human as a result of the massive breeding worldwide. It is however normally to recessive and bred out to have any effect, although there are exceptions (i.e gm approved). Especially with a little help from bitter exiled dragons who oh say may not have been given a chance to tell their loyal followers to stand down before they were horribly slaughtered or who anticipated their possible death and set in motion an abomination plan B to stick it to their killers since they could afterall kill any of the offspring they were tracking if they won. Is everyone one? No? Can any given player be one? Yes just excpect the GM to have a lot of fun with you.
« Last Edit: <05-25-14/0132:04> by Senko »

Mirikon

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« Reply #33 on: <05-25-14/0812:40> »
You're wrong about something, Furious Trope. The Immortal Elves are ALL ABOUT master plans and plotting and scheming. Of all the immortals, Harlequin and Frosty are the exceptions. Well, Oakforest's kid was, too, but he made the big mistake of trying to make an omelet with dragon eggs under Lofwyr's protection. I'll let you guess how that turned out for him.

Both Tirs, and almost certainly all the other 'elven lands' around the world have immortal elf fingerprints all over them, even if they aren't directly involved. Tir Tairngir and Tir Nan Og were both created directly by immortal elves, and until the 'unpleasantness' in Tir Tairngir during the Crash, both were ruled by the IEs.

You don't live to be several thousand years old without learning how to weave a plot or two. Harlequin may act differently, but that's because he's been suffering from a heavy dose of depression for who knows how long, and if you'd watched the last couple thousand years of (meta)human civilization, you'd probably have a dim outlook on things, too. Frosty acts differently because she's still the youngest immortal, and hasn't even lived long for a normal elf.
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ProfGast

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« Reply #34 on: <05-26-14/1738:24> »
Where did they say immortal elves were descended from dragons?
That's a leftover from Earthdawn (something that CGL has been gravitating away from) but you can't just take nearly 20 years of background and excise it just like that.

OUT damned spot

Anyhow that's that.

Sendaz

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« Reply #35 on: <05-26-14/1743:46> »
They say that somewhere in the Jewel of Memories there is a pile of 'Dragons Gone Wild' memories with all their wacky antics and metahuman hook-ups. 
Do you believe in a greater WIRELESS, an Invisible(WiFi) All Seeing(detecting those connected- at least if within 100'), All Knowing(all online data) Presence that we can draw upon for Wisdom(downloads & updates), Strength (wifi boni) and Comfort (porn) or do you turn your back on it  (Go Offline)?

psycho835

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« Reply #36 on: <05-28-14/1744:34> »
They say that somewhere in the Jewel of Memories there is a pile of 'Dragons Gone Wild' memories with all their wacky antics and metahuman hook-ups. 
And now we know WHY they all wanted it in Survival of the Fittest.

RulezLawyerZ

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« Reply #37 on: <05-29-14/1801:20> »
Bunch of quotes all consolidated.

Seriously, just talk to your GM and tell him you don't want your character to die of old age, ever, and figure out what will work in your game.

I don't believe that I've ever played in a SR game where dying of old age was a possibility, much less a problem. "Don't want to die of old age? Sure. Trade me this Day-Glo t-shirt for your armored jacket." :)

According to the reply in my thread there are 24 immortals including one human currently canon wise and I believe they can identify immortal elves at least due to specific genetic markers.

While I doubt that there is a specific Immortality Test ("Pee on the stick, and if you see a blue infinity, congratulations!"), a particular genome could probably be analyzed for mutations and drift compared to some sort of "normal." Maybe looks at the mDNA to estimate how far the individual is from the mitochondrial eve? Probably would only work on the old-timers, though, since it depends on the genome's variance from the common baseline. Would also probably cost plot-device amounts of money, too.

anyone can be an immortal elf/human as a result of the massive breeding worldwide. It is however normally to recessive and bred out to have any effect, although there are exceptions (i.e gm approved).

As long as it's only diluted, not eliminated, a trait can be re-amplified by a proper breeding program. Hmm... What if the whole inbred European royalty thing wasn't snobbish-ness, but an attempt to concentrate the dragon blood sufficiently to create a new Immortal? I'm totally stealing this idea.

Senko

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« Reply #38 on: <05-30-14/2056:38> »
I like that idea too be interesting to hear how you go with it.

cantrip

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« Reply #39 on: <06-04-14/1630:53> »
Where did they say immortal elves were descended from dragons?
That's a leftover from Earthdawn (something that CGL has been gravitating away from) but you can't just take nearly 20 years of background and excise it just like that.

OUT damned spot

Anyhow that's that.

My impression was that immortal elves were just that - unique elves, no ties to dragons. I'd have to go back and re-read my ED books (well, dig them out of storage, dust them off, sort them and then read them ;) ), but it seemed like there were Drakes and Dragon-Kin. Drakes being the magical constructs created by dragons and the kin being the offspring of a name-giver and dragon in name-giver form. Though I think the dragon-kin needed a dragon around through the generations to provide ....ermm....regular influx of dragon blood into the bloodline, otherwise their line reverted to standard name-giver types. I think the kin also had mutations of a dragon nature --- granted masking and/or illusions would cover that.

The elves from ED were a thorn in the dragons sides then too....the great dragons are probably irked that their *are* still immortal elves! Somewhere there is a list of ED to SR mappings of IE elves---most of them were leaders/royalty and high level magicians back then also.

As it's already been stated previously, since ED and SR separated ways, I would guess there were a lot of story arcs and info that was never completed or just plain lost and forgotten. To be fair though there are a lot SR story arcs that have been hinted at over the years that never went anywhere...granted they may pick them up again sometime and then there will a huge thread on it!  ;)

Mirikon

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« Reply #40 on: <06-04-14/1926:16> »
The elves in ED were a thorn in the dragons' sides for a couple reasons. For one thing, the immortal elves had a 'falling out' with their progenitors, not wanting to be slaves, and there was still bad blood on either side by ED times. Things weren't helped any when Alamaise (he used an 'e' back then) showed up at the dawn of the 4th World at the site of one of his old lairs, which happened to be the wood where the Elves had taken to making their Lothlorien (named Wyrm Wood) and said that he was the ruler of all these lands, and they should serve him. The elves weren't amused, and he killed some of them, including the current queen. Oh, and then Alachia, one of the more Machiavellian and petty immortal elves, ended up as the Queen of the Elves. No, I'm not making that up. So basically, it boils down to the fact that Alamais was always a dick, and people hated him.

And yes, dragonkin needed a regular infusion of dragon blood (in a Rule 34 sense, in case anyone was unclear) for the line to continue producing dragonkin. However, if you were in the range where you were able to produce dragonkin kids, just being really old wouldn't have much affect on that, as Ehran proved by having a kid in the Sixth World. I suspect that, unless there's substantial biological changes, males would remain viable parents longer than females. If I have to explain further, I'll just send you back to high school health class.

And yes, dragonkin typically have some kind of draconic mutation, such as scales over parts of their body. However, even without magic, depending on where these mutations are,  they could be easy to hide. In the Sixth World, they're even easier to disguise through mundane means, to say nothing of illusions.
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« Reply #41 on: <06-05-14/0751:55> »
The elves in ED were a thorn in the dragons' sides

Nice one   ;)
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Mirikon

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« Reply #42 on: <06-05-14/0939:52> »
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