[Kot]

@Voydangel: Well, as for the Lightning Bolt part, remember that most mundane electrical attacks are tasers and stick'n'shock rounds. A Lightning Bolt is what it's name implies: A lot more voltage and amperage than any living thing can handle.

[Mäx]

@Voydangel: Well, as for the Lightning Bolt part, remember that most mundane electrical attacks are tasers and stick'n'shock rounds. A Lightning Bolt is what it's name implies: A lot more voltage and amperage than any living thing can handle.

And im gonna be laughing still next year, if somebody claim with a straight face that a natural lighting bolt does anything other then physical damage.

[Kot]

Well, there were cases when people survived a lightning strike pretty much unscathed... But they were all grounded. Or trolls in past lives.
I had a near call - a lightning hit the ground abou 50 m from me. It was raining, so i got zapped a little, fell down, and almost got knocked out. And i had painful muscle spasms in my legs for a few hours, that made walking a bit... interesting.

[Mäx]

Yes there are people who have survived direct hits from a lightning, but there are also whole lot of trees destroyed by lightnings and those are immune to stun damage.

[Kot]

Yes there are people who have survived direct hits from a lightning, but there are also whole lot of trees destroyed by lightnings and those are immune to stun damage.

ROTFL. I see your point there. <laughs>

[Dead Monky]

The vast majority of people hit by lightning that don't die are severely messed up by it.  3rd or even 4th degree burns, brain damage, paralysis, organ failure, amputations, and so on.  An average lightning bolt is about 30,000 amps, 500 megajoules of energy, and about 36,000 degrees F.  So yeah, stun damage.

[Nomad Zophiel]

Yeah, and an F3 Lightning Bolt spell makes the character go "ow, dammit" and shoot you. So its comparable to a lightning bolt from nature about the same way a motorcycle engine is comparable to an earthquake.

[Dead Monky]

I'm just saying, man.  Electricity screws you up.  It's actually pretty easy to kill someone with a real world Taser.  Especially if they have any kind of underlying health concerns or are high on any number of drugs (especially stimulants).  Tasers work by basically shortcircuiting your nervous system with electricity, interfering with your brain's ability to control your muscles.  There's a pretty fine line between what is deadly and what is acceptably less-than-deadly when it comes to these things.

Also, magic probably pours energy into the effect more efficiently and vigorously than the tiny batteries powering stun guns.  Lethal power would be easy to achieve.

I wonder what kind of Force you'd need to make it equal to a natural one.....

EDIT
Typo fixes.

[voydangel]

Ok, cool, so I'll just assume that since no one can come up with RAW to the contrary that my statement stands.

Those are very good real world explanations and figures and whatnot, but they don't refute the fact that in Shadowrun, magically created elemental effects are magical in nature.

[Kot]

As Dead Monky wrote - tasers can really hurt someone. I'm not really what you'd call 'a scientific mind', but as far as i remeber, tasers, and other shock weapons use high voltage impulses. And you can survive these, as they shouldn't cause any significant damage. But a Lightning Bolt/Ball spell uses something akin to their real counterpart. As with wall sockets, it's not the voltage that kills - it's the sole amount of electrical current, that hurts the target. So it's not a 'safe' (or should i write 'semi-safe') ammount of electricity. Even if a Force 3 Lighning Bolt isn't much, it's still as painfull as a .22 round. Even if your armor absorbs most of it...

And as for what Voydangel wrote, yes, but 'immunity to normal weapons' means knives, clubs, bullets, and shotgun shots. Not shoving a live wire into the spirit's manifested form... But i'd still say: magical, or no, you can't hurt a fire spirit with fire. That's just stupid...

[Chaemera]

As Dead Monky wrote - tasers can really hurt someone. I'm not really what you'd call 'a scientific mind', but as far as i remeber, tasers, and other shock weapons use high voltage impulses. And you can survive these, as they shouldn't cause any significant damage. But a Lightning Bolt/Ball spell uses something akin to their real counterpart. As with wall sockets, it's not the voltage that kills - it's the sole amount of electrical current, that hurts the target. So it's not a 'safe' (or should i write 'semi-safe') ammount of electricity. Even if a Force 3 Lighning Bolt isn't much, it's still as painfull as a .22 round. Even if your armor absorbs most of it...

One slight clarification, though. While current is what kills, current is entirely derived from Voltage and Resistances. In other words, low voltage, high resistance, low current. Of course, it only takes 5 mA across the heart to kill. . .

The other factor is the Energy. If it's high voltage, it still won't create that large current if the energy source can't supply power for a sufficient time. So, even though the average taser is dealing with over 10 kV, there's no energy to sustain a real current, you freak and hit the floor (or die, if you're epileptic / various other neurological / chemical issues / in a copper bathtub). Whereas, though a power outlet is 110 V, it's got a sustained energy source to draw from and can build up the current through your body (up to V/R, where R is the resistance of your body).

Just a little electrical engineering for everyone.

[Dead Monky]

Actual electrical engineering knowledge is better than my third-hand pillaging from Wiki.  Ain't it?   

[Kot]

I was waiting for a clarification like that. My engineering-and-science english is really bad. I could express myself in polish, but that wouldn't help much.

[Chaemera]

I was waiting for a clarification like that. My engineering-and-science english is really bad. I could express myself in polish, but that wouldn't help much.

I'd hate to try and repeat any of what I said in Latin. Sadly, that's the only other language I'm any good with and I'm horribly rusty with that.

[Kot]

Ipso facto.

What about something called Attack of Will? I don't really remember that in the rules? Where is it from, and how does it work? Street Magic perhaps?