[RHat]

I'd personally like to see more development of the technomancers. I never heard of them until buying the new SR5 last month. I'm a magic user at heart, but technomancers have gotten me interested in the Matrix after all these years. I know it's not actually magic...but it's LIKE magic in the Matrix. Good enough for me

Skipped SR4, I take it?

haha, yup!

If you're familiar with Otaku, there's some kind of indeterminate connection there.

[Cowdragon]

I'd personally like to see more development of the technomancers. I never heard of them until buying the new SR5 last month. I'm a magic user at heart, but technomancers have gotten me interested in the Matrix after all these years. I know it's not actually magic...but it's LIKE magic in the Matrix. Good enough for me

Skipped SR4, I take it?

haha, yup!

If you're familiar with Otaku, there's some kind of indeterminate connection there.

Otaku SOUNDS familiar, but it's not ringing any bells. Maybe I need to start looking at Shadowrun Wiki a little?

[RHat]

I'd personally like to see more development of the technomancers. I never heard of them until buying the new SR5 last month. I'm a magic user at heart, but technomancers have gotten me interested in the Matrix after all these years. I know it's not actually magic...but it's LIKE magic in the Matrix. Good enough for me

Skipped SR4, I take it?

haha, yup!

If you're familiar with Otaku, there's some kind of indeterminate connection there.

Otaku SOUNDS familiar, but it's not ringing any bells. Maybe I need to start looking at Shadowrun Wiki a little?

Think they were an SR3 thing?  Basically, could run the Matrix without a deck, though they still needed a datajack; technomancers are a different animal, certainly, but the Resonance and Deep Resonance stuff is common between them.

[Michael Chandra]

A minor note: Mental Manipulation spells also have some big roleplaying downside to it with heavy consequences, but Puppeteer doesn't afaik.

[DMK]

A minor note: Mental Manipulation spells also have some big roleplaying downside to it with heavy consequences, but Puppeteer doesn't afaik.

It can be argued that powers such as Puppeteer are what has led to the overall lousy reputation "enjoyed" by all Technomancers...

[Michael Chandra]

Except for that we know the real reasons, including a frame-job by the Corps that wanted the right to experiment on them, and that was before Puppeteer existed. But that's not what I'm talking about, and we all know that TMs are treated by suspicion. What I'm talking about is the consequences for Mental Manipulation that the Missions FAQ notes, including how if you leave survivors people will come hunt you down for it. I am not aware of Puppeteer itself leaving any trace like that.

[Cronstintein]

While I'm not much of a fan of either control thoughts or puppeteer, I do think puppeteer does need a higher drain.  CT will grant 2 to 3 checks before taking effect vs just the one resistance check on puppeteer, and the faster result from no command action required.

[Namikaze]

While I'm not much of a fan of either control thoughts or puppeteer, I do think puppeteer does need a higher drain.  CT will grant 2 to 3 checks before taking effect vs just the one resistance check on puppeteer, and the faster result from no command action required.

So let's review.  If you're trying to do the most complex action of Puppeteer, you need 3 hits.  That means on average you need 12 dice.  Assuming your average TM has a Resonance of 6 (which is assuming a lot, by the way) then the Level of Puppeteer needs to be 6 as well, just to get the average.  All of this is without Edge, because Edge changes everything.  You're saying that resisting 12 points of Fading damage is not enough?  Bear in mind that this is for one action.  It's not like you suddenly own the device.

[Triskavanski]

Why do you need to set it to 6 just because you have a six resonance?

Where does the two extra points of fade come from?

Bear in mind, even if we skip the use of edge, We've got sprites. We've got diffusion of matrix attribute.


Though yes, I agree that +4 is a bit too much. -1 or lower however is too little. The Control thoughts/actions should be higher than they are right now.

[Namikaze]

Why do you need to set it to 6 just because you have a six resonance?

Where does the two extra points of fade come from?

Bear in mind, even if we skip the use of edge, We've got sprites. We've got diffusion of matrix attribute.


Though yes, I agree that +4 is a bit too much. -1 or lower however is too little. The Control thoughts/actions should be higher than they are right now.

Sorry Trisk.  I'm doing all this math from memory, and it's not what it used to be.  You're correct - you don't have to set the Level to 6.  You need to set it to 3, assuming no hits from the opposing dice pool.  So you need 6 ranks in Software, 6 points of Resonance (or any combination that adds to 12) just to have a fighting chance of getting 3 hits.  And I did do my math incorrectly - it should be L+4, not L+6 like I was remembering.  Still, just to have a minimal chance of pulling this off, a TM has to resist 7 points of Fading.  If the opposition might be tough, a TM has to resist far more.  Using Diffusion of Attribute isn't really a solution as we're comparing this test at a one-to-one ratio to Control Thoughts.

[Triskavanski]

Ultimately, its cause you don't need to go throwing puppeteer at everything you meet. Otherwise, you're taking down anyone who has the ability to go VR and is currently running AR, constantly.

There is things like the cheaper version of Puppeteer, Spoof Command. It doesn't cost you any fade to pull that off, and it functions for most of what you're going to do.

Now again, yes, +4 is a bit high for Puppeteer. -1 is too cheap for either of them. Ultimately Control Thoughts should be increased a pretty heavy amount, even if it does carry the risk where you have to be LOS to get it to go off in the first place.

[DMK]

You don't have much choice but to thread Puppeteer up around L6, barring, of course, Edge. It's trivially easy to have a Defence Pool of 9 against Puppeteer. Just get a R6 commlink & have a Willpower of 3. So you can anticipate the defending device to roll around 3 successes... meaning that for almost everything you need six successes. Best of luck with that, as in general a starting Technomancer will have 12 dice for threading the form... maybe 14 if they have a skill point or karma to spare to take a specialization in Puppeteer.

It's an interesting contrast to Control Thoughts & the like. With those spells, your net hits determine how long you can maintain control. 1 hit is enough to make the target do something. With Puppeteer it's a lot harder to make anything happen, because the vast majority of matrix actions are Complex.

[ProfessorCirno]

I don't really see the point of making a techno if you're almost never using your complex forms.  In my opinion, I'd rather see Fading lowered across the board and more/new complex forms (that do more stuff Deckers simply can't) enter the game to better distinguish them.  Deckers are already simply better at the hacking itself and have a higher potential to take a second role; rather then make them identical, I'd rather focus on the stuff that makes Technos unique.

[Cowdragon]

I don't really see the point of making a techno if you're almost never using your complex forms.  In my opinion, I'd rather see Fading lowered across the board and more/new complex forms (that do more stuff Deckers simply can't) enter the game to better distinguish them.  Deckers are already simply better at the hacking itself and have a higher potential to take a second role; rather then make them identical, I'd rather focus on the stuff that makes Technos unique.

I've got no experience playing Technomancers, but it does seem that they take a lot of stun damage just doing what a Decker would be doing anyway...

also, I love seeing more things that distinguish one archetype from another.

[Triskavanski]

Well, thats because you're focusing on a single complex form, deciding you'll rarely ever use it, and then saying you'll hardly ever use any complex form because of it. You're also forgetting the whole biodeck, and a few bonuses to matrix stuff. While not the most impressive initially, the echo's can start giving you all sorts of improvements.

Technomancers also make excellent faces, when not picking up augmentations.

But you are right, currently right now, lots of the complex forms are like "super" versions of matrix actions.

Hide/Static Bomb
Hide increases your god score, and only affects a single target.
Static Bomb on the other hand, doesn't increase your god score and hides you from all targets. However both of them.. kinda need a little bit wording help.

Jam Signals/Pulse Storm
Jam signals is another one that increases your GOD score, turns one device into a jammer that screws with everything.Now cause you're a persona, not a device though, it hardly effects you unless you're trying to mess with a device near that one.
Pulse storm however, its more permanent. more precision based.. Though I think something might be badly worded there... since its a duration of I



Grid Hop/Transcendent Grid
Grid hop has potential of increasing your god score. And you're still only one one grid.
Transcendent grid bridges them all together, and lasts for a few minutes at the very least. You basically no long suffer penalty of noise because of your grid. Very handy when there is a lot of traffic on one grid.And there is hardly any reason not to bring it up to level 5 or 6.

Spoof Command/Puppeteer
Spoof increases god score, needs marks, and such. But it can function fairly easily for most everything you'd need it to do.
Puppeteer, the +4 fade does hurt, but since spoof can cover most of the things, really you'd probally use this more as the ace of the sleeve.

Edit File/Editor
Edit File again does most of what you'd need here. Its a bit risky if you've not done it right, but still.
Editor - You need a file changed in a jiffy? Thats what this is for. Getting it done now. With a point of edge, you can get something edited out greatly, in a single turn.

Data Spike/Resonance Spike
Data spike has two resistance checks and increases your God score.

Resonance Spike however, only a single resistance check, and it doesn't increase your god score.



Overall, looking at the abilities and such, I feel the technomancer's complex forms currently are more of the ace up the sleeve. Being one, means you can have those aces. Being a decker means you're not having them. Though it would be nice to have more of them of course, and have a slight decrease in fade cost for most as well.

As a mage, you don't use magic fingers to open doors do you? You don't expect an adepts armor power to protect you better than real armor?

I don't really see the point of making a techno if you're almost never using your complex forms.  In my opinion, I'd rather see Fading lowered across the board and more/new complex forms (that do more stuff Deckers simply can't) enter the game to better distinguish them.  Deckers are already simply better at the hacking itself and have a higher potential to take a second role; rather then make them identical, I'd rather focus on the stuff that makes Technos unique.

I've got no experience playing Technomancers, but it does seem that they take a lot of stun damage just doing what a Decker would be doing anyway...

also, I love seeing more things that distinguish one archetype from another.

Only if you're constantly using the complex forms to perform the mundane tasks that a decker handles.

I think one of the biggest problems overall that a technomancer faces is that they are seen as supernaturally mundane, In other words, some of the things they can do break the laws of physics and such, like using a Machine sprite to run diagnostics on a handgun to boost the technomancers proficiency with the weapon beyond normal technological limits.