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[SR5] LMGS and MMGs

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Nightmare

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« on: <03-17-14/1124:27> »
Anyone else notice that the LMG and MMG in SR5's rulebook does less damage than the Ares Alpha assault rifle?  IS this right or a misprint?

Medicineman

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« Reply #1 on: <03-17-14/1128:02> »
Anyone else notice that the LMG and MMG in SR5's rulebook does less damage than the Ares Alpha assault rifle?  IS this right or a misprint?
its neither nor  ;D

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« Last Edit: <03-17-14/1129:40> by Medicineman »
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #2 on: <03-17-14/1145:58> »
In SR4 they were the same and slightly better, but back then all Assault rifles had identical stats.
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Namikaze

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« Reply #3 on: <03-17-14/1216:24> »
I do find the MMGs and HMGs to be a little wonky.  They don't do a lot more damage, they require a heavy mount to use, and they are pretty bare-bones systems at best.  Sure, they can throw lead downrange for days but that can't seriously be their best use.  Still, these things are way out of the scale of most of the games that I run so I don't see them used too often (except on vehicles, natch).
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #4 on: <03-17-14/1242:10> »
They'd work better if it wasn't for any mount-weapon automatically getting 250 rounds of ammunition, and with accumulative recoil not clearing that easily so that Suppressive Fire becomes a nice alternative. But alas, each of those two changes screws them over.
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Flip

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« Reply #5 on: <03-24-14/0358:34> »
Don't forget, its a lot easier to smuggle Assault Rifles than it is to smuggle in LMGs and up. Another hit against bigger guns.

Edit: I just remembered, in the entry on page 451 for weapon mounts, it says that Standard mounts get "250 rounds of ammo", and that Heavy Mounts get "500 rounds of belted ammo"

Does the distinction between belted and non belted mean that standard mount weapons still need to reload as per their clip/magazine size?
« Last Edit: <03-24-14/0413:27> by Flip »

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #6 on: <03-24-14/0750:05> »
Not entirely clear. And to be honest, I haven't got the foggiest how reloading would work for drones. If they still have to waste Actions reloading, it might be a nice boost to XMGs in weapon mounts, constant suppressive fire.
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martinchaen

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« Reply #7 on: <03-24-14/0943:10> »
I absolutely believe that a mounted weapon does not have it's magazine capacity changed. The fact that the weapon mount "holds" 250 rounds of ammunition does not mean the weapon now holds 250 rounds of ammunition.

To my mind, part of the cost of the weapon mount also includes a reload mechanism. An Ares Alpha mounted in a standard weapon mount would still have to reload every 40 rounds fired, and it could do so using the standard rules for reloading, no additional rules needed as it can be assumed the weapon mount takes care of it.

It can not be assumed, in my opinion, that the same Ares Alpha is somehow converted to a fully automatic, belt-fed fire mode.

JimmyCrisis

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« Reply #8 on: <04-10-14/0607:24> »
MGs are not for Shadowrunners.  Rather, the purpose on an LMG or MMG is as a dedicated vehicular or squad support weapon - covering fire for days.  They are built to shoot and keep shooting until whatever you are fighting is gone.  Portability, concealment, and ergonomics are not a real factor with this kind of weapon.  Modern LMGs and MMGs use assault rifle rounds, typically the same rounds chambered in your lower-powered hi-capacity rifle for the LMG and your higher-powered low-capacity marksman's rifle for your MMG.  Conversely, the HMG uses belts of sniper or anti-material rifle rounds. 

Problem is, most SR combats I've seen are over within two combat turns, which I believe amounts to 6 seconds.  Your average assault rifle will do the trick just fine for engagements much longer than this, and they really shine in comparison.  The type of shadowrunner who would want to use an MG would be a troll, which makes sense given their large size.  In this case, the large size and heavy weight of the weapon fit the ergonomics of the troll profile better than an assault rifle made for humans. 

The big benefits of a machinegun aren't really covered by SR rules.  First, machine guns are easily adapted to vehicles.  In this edition of SR, however, all weapons are easily adapted to drones and other weapon mounts, so this aspect doesn't come into play in the rules.  Second, modern machine guns are designed to operate jam-free, more-so than assault rifles.  Well, jams only happen in SR when someone glitches and the GM decides that's how the story goes.

I would suggest that an MG could be fitted with a Smart Firing Platform and used remotely from a stand-off distance.  Find a good spot to hide it and you've got squad support for up to 1500 meters away at the push of a button, with all the ammo you want to pack into it.  This works great if your run is out in the open, or you've got a good view of the place you'll be doing your running.  Of course, deckers can muck that up a bit...

BaronAtomy

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« Reply #9 on: <04-16-14/1911:53> »
Or you can use them as drone overwatch or emplaced FPLs to provide suppressing fire to cover an escape or tactical maneuvering. 

  Honestly, though, I'd think a dwarf, orc, or troll with a respectable strength should be able to to suppress, roll over, pin down, and deafen anything not behind good cover with an MMG.  Throws away subtlety, which is usually a poor choice in the shadows, but sometimes doing what they'd least expect from a runner team could pay off.

SlowDeck

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« Reply #10 on: <04-16-14/1942:30> »
The fact that some assault rifles come standard with grenade launchers pretty much screws over MGs. After all, would you take a weapon that, with modification, can fire 500 rounds and 6 grenades... or for the same room on the drone, would you take two weapons that can fire a combined 500 rounds and 12 grenades? And if you load the latter scenario right, you can have a drone that bombards you enemies with flashbangs and high-explosive grenades before opening fire on them with automatic weaponry.

And if you're feeling particularly sadistic, one of the weapons on the drone could have an underbarrel bola launcher loaded with boom bolas.
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Leevizer

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« Reply #11 on: <04-29-14/0806:30> »
Ignoring the fact that there are no reasons for using machine guns (except for the additional range and bigger clips, which are quite minor) for a moment...

Compare the Krime Wave to the Ingram Valiant. I just can't understand this. Even when kitted out with the stuff the Valiant has and more, it's still cheaper.

Also, it deals more damage and has basically a clip of 150 bullets, atleast according to the fluff part. The only bad thing is that it doesn't fire in bursts. But to be honest, if you are toting a machine gun around you're not going to use it for burst fire anyway...

So, if you want a machine gun for that suppressive fire? Buy a krime cannon. Less than 10K nuyen with ammo and will be more than enough for all your suppressive fire needs.

Namikaze

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« Reply #12 on: <04-29-14/1403:29> »
Yup, because Krime is a new manufacturer building on the cheap and flooding the streets, the price is really affordable to your average runner.  I imagine we'd see more corps and militaries fielding the Valiant simply because of name recognition, familiarity, etc.
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« Reply #13 on: <04-29-14/1639:26> »
Of course the downside of the Krime Wave is that it can't be as fully modded/accessorized.
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