[Dinendae]

So my group is getting ready to kick SR5M into gear, and I've been designated character updater for a fellow player who is still trying to learn everything. Knowing he's going to want to be looking at purchasing and upgrading gear (he's a cybered combat decker build), I realize that outside of the bare basics (ammo), I never bought anything in Season 4. I looked through the SR5 rulebook, but I'm having difficulty understanding the buying rules in regards to posts I've seen here. I know that you have to buy hits (four dice per hit) to buy an item, and that contacts can buy you gear if you're not a face type (and thus do not have the necessary social graces). What I seem to be missing is some of the formulas used to determine how it is done, and how long it takes.

For example, I've seen it posted on the forums that a contact buying gear uses [Connection x 2] + Loyalty as the formula to figure out how many hits can be purchased. However the book says (on page 418, Contacts and Availability) that contacts use their Negotiation and Charisma with their Connection Rating serving as a bonus to their Social Limit. Am I missing a rule that changes this somewhere? I checked both the SR5 Errata and SR5M documents, but saw nothing changing what the books says.

If it is indeed [Connection x 2] + Loyalty, help me break down the process with the following scenarios, please:

Scenario 1: Sammy the Street Sam has a contact, Fred the Fixer, with a 6/1 rating. Loading up on all kinds of cyber/bio goodies, he forgets to purchase eye upgrades and now needs to purchase glasses [Rating 4, no availability code] with vision enhancements [Vision Enhancement [3], Smartlink [1], availability is now 10R] for a 2400Y total cost.

According to the formula above, Fred would have [[Cx2] + L] dice, or 13 dice to buy hits, giving him 3 hits, correct?

The glasses, having an availability code thanks to the enhancements, would have 10 dice to buy hits, for 2 hits, correct?

Looking at the Delivery Times Table on P. 418, 2400Y takes two days. How long will it actually take Sam to get his glasses, assuming he doesn't throw extra money at Fred?

Scenario 2: Sam and Fred are at it again! This time, Fred's fake SIN got burned and he needs a new one that's of a higher rating. He contacts Fred, and requests the best fake SIN that Fred can get [R6, 18F, 15,000Y]. Assuming Sam is a tightwad, and doesn't wish to throw more money at Fred, can he even get the new SIN - Fred has 6/1 - or 3 hits, versus 18F or 4 hits? With a delivery time interval of 1 week, if he can get the glasses, how long would it take?

[Michael Chandra]

Contacts usually roll Negotiation+Charisma[Social+Connection]. There is one line that says Connection also is bonus dice, but given the tendency to turn dicepool modifiers into limit modifiers, it's quite likely this one is in error, though until the Errata mention either way is uncertain.

For Missions, those stats are officially not known to players, so instead Connection+Loyalty[Social+Connection] is used. This is stated by the FAQ. However, we (I) asked Bull if Connection was also bonus dice, since the rules aren't clear on the matter. He then decided that, since these numbers are significantly lower than Negotiation+Charisma, Connection would also give bonus dice in Missions. This is where the Connectionx2+Loyalty dicepool comes from.

With 3 hits vs 2, so 1 net hit, it'd be (2 days)/1=2 days delivery time. With 3 hits vs 4, it's impossible to get the item. There is a Firing Line Mission with a potential Availability Favor though. With 3 hits vs 3, delivery time would double.

Note that for a character that tries to get their own gear, rather than have a contact do so, the delivery time is actually consumed and unavailable for other downtime activity.

By the way, 6/1 characters are a bad idea. If you grab a Missions contact at 5/2, and do what they want enough, eventually they'll be at 5/4. At that point it's only 50% extra pay to score any item at Availability 16~19.

[Dinendae]

Ah, that makes it clearer now. Thanks!

[Dinendae]

By the way, 6/1 characters are a bad idea. If you grab a Missions contact at 5/2, and do what they want enough, eventually they'll be at 5/4. At that point it's only 50% extra pay to score any item at Availability 16~19.

Sorry to post here again, but after thinking on this I am a bit puzzled by why a 6/1 contact is a bad idea. Can't you raise the loyalty via karma, or was that only during character creation and generic contacts are stuck at the level you bought them at?

[Timothy M. Patrick]

The downside to this is no where in the missions rules is this stated. I am sure Bull has stated this but until it goes into the Missions FAQ it's not an official rule and doing this would create an unfair advantage to some players. The whole point of missions is to be a living campaign in a shared universe the rules need to be applied evenly and uniformly.

Contacts usually roll Negotiation+Charisma[Social+Connection]. There is one line that says Connection also is bonus dice, but given the tendency to turn dicepool modifiers into limit modifiers, it's quite likely this one is in error, though until the Errata mention either way is uncertain.

For Missions, those stats are officially not known to players, so instead Connection+Loyalty[Social+Connection] is used. This is stated by the FAQ. However, we (I) asked Bull if Connection was also bonus dice, since the rules aren't clear on the matter. He then decided that, since these numbers are significantly lower than Negotiation+Charisma, Connection would also give bonus dice in Missions. This is where the Connectionx2+Loyalty dicepool comes from.

With 3 hits vs 2, so 1 net hit, it'd be (2 days)/1=2 days delivery time. With 3 hits vs 4, it's impossible to get the item. There is a Firing Line Mission with a potential Availability Favor though. With 3 hits vs 3, delivery time would double.

Note that for a character that tries to get their own gear, rather than have a contact do so, the delivery time is actually consumed and unavailable for other downtime activity.

By the way, 6/1 characters are a bad idea. If you grab a Missions contact at 5/2, and do what they want enough, eventually they'll be at 5/4. At that point it's only 50% extra pay to score any item at Availability 16~19.

[ZeConster]

By the way, 6/1 characters are a bad idea. If you grab a Missions contact at 5/2, and do what they want enough, eventually they'll be at 5/4. At that point it's only 50% extra pay to score any item at Availability 16~19.

Sorry to post here again, but after thinking on this I am a bit puzzled by why a 6/1 contact is a bad idea. Can't you raise the loyalty via karma, or was that only during character creation and generic contacts are stuck at the level you bought them at?

I don't recall 4th edition or 5th edition having the option to spend karma post-chargen to improve your contacts. They're a bit like sprites and spirits in that sense: you can get those at chargen with karma, but it doesn't work like that afterwards.
On the other hand, I believe several Missions have a disclaimer about how using a non-Missions contact allows you to gain Loyalty with them, but only if you go beyond the norm (simply paying them for information or gear doesn't cut it).

[PittsburghRPGA]

Sorry to post here again, but after thinking on this I am a bit puzzled by why a 6/1 contact is a bad idea. Can't you raise the loyalty via karma, or was that only during character creation and generic contacts are stuck at the level you bought them at?

No, you can not raise the loyalty with Karma. It must be earned during play.  It is very hard to raise the generic contacts during play because there isn't always time to fit in the needed role playing and tasks involved in raising their loyalty.   

Missions Contacts such as Juan Xihitl, Martin Tate, Sarah Silverleaf, and Simon Andrews all show up in Missions play, and if you succeed in the mission, it will often include a +1 bump in Loyalty.  They have the highest connections (5), but you end up working for their respective corporations' goals, and in a way, become a tiny bit of a corporate sell out.  That doesn't/shouldn't bother all characters, but runs anti some character concepts.

Eric

[Dinendae]

No, you can not raise the loyalty with Karma. It must be earned during play.  It is very hard to raise the generic contacts during play because there isn't always time to fit in the needed role playing and tasks involved in raising their loyalty.   

Missions Contacts such as Juan Xihitl, Martin Tate, Sarah Silverleaf, and Simon Andrews all show up in Missions play, and if you succeed in the mission, it will often include a +1 bump in Loyalty.  They have the highest connections (5), but you end up working for their respective corporations' goals, and in a way, become a tiny bit of a corporate sell out.  That doesn't/shouldn't bother all characters, but runs anti some character concepts.

Eric

Ah, that explains why it's a bad idea then: You can never raise their loyalty after character gen, and thus are stuck. That does make me wonder if it might not be better to get an official missions contact, and start them out at a 6/1? If their loyalty is going to raise eventually, wouldn't that give you slightly better purchasing power in the short term? Or am I missing something again?

The downside to this is no where in the missions rules is this stated. I am sure Bull has stated this but until it goes into the Missions FAQ it's not an official rule and doing this would create an unfair advantage to some players. The whole point of missions is to be a living campaign in a shared universe the rules need to be applied evenly and uniformly.

I wonder if Bull would be willing to add it real quick to the Hot Patch errata document, until it can be put in with the regular Missions rules? You're right about it creating a patchwork situation; it needs to be applied equally.

[SMDVogrin]

Ah, that explains why it's a bad idea then: You can never raise their loyalty after character gen, and thus are stuck. That does make me wonder if it might not be better to get an official missions contact, and start them out at a 6/1? If their loyalty is going to raise eventually, wouldn't that give you slightly better purchasing power in the short term? Or am I missing something again?

Because you can't start an official contact at Connections 6 - they have their connections ratings specified in their description, and none of them are connections 6.

[PittsburghRPGA]

Ah, that explains why it's a bad idea then: You can never raise their loyalty after character gen, and thus are stuck. That does make me wonder if it might not be better to get an official missions contact, and start them out at a 6/1? If their loyalty is going to raise eventually, wouldn't that give you slightly better purchasing power in the short term? Or am I missing something again?

If you look at the pdf from the Mission Prep download (available at Battleshop and rpgnow for free), you'll see that the Missions NPC have fixed Connection Ratings and Maximum Loyalties. Combined with the rule from the FAQ for Missions where in you can only spend 7 Karma on a Contact, you'll see that 5/2 is the best you can start with.  Now, that's not to say that there are not Contacts that can be earned during play that have Connection Rating 6, but I'm not going to be the one who gives the spoilers on which mod or mods that Contact appears in.

Eric

[Dinendae]

Huh, I could have sworn I saw at least one in there that was 6/x, but apparently not. Oh well, 5/2 it is! 

[Dinendae]

Ok, I looked at the Season 5 contacts, and what I hope are the final questions (for me, anyway):

1. Does the contact have to be listed as a fixer in order to acquire gear for you?

2. If so are Sarah, Sid, and Simon the only fixers, or did I miss one?

Thanks!

[PittsburghRPGA]

Ok, I looked at the Season 5 contacts, and what I hope are the final questions (for me, anyway):

1. Does the contact have to be listed as a fixer in order to acquire gear for you?

2. If so are Sarah, Sid, and Simon the only fixers, or did I miss one?

Thanks!

1. No. Not that I'm aware of. If you look at the FAQ in the Season 5 Prep files download, page 12, it doesn't say anything about what "role" a contact has, just that contacts can find gear for you.

2. Technically, only Quantum Princess and Sid have Fixer in their description of the 1/3 sheets.  Sarah Silverleaf is the Renraku Johnson. Simon's 1/3 page handout lists him as a trouble shooter, but would seem to be the Saeder-Krupp Johnson.

[Kincaid]

To add on to what Eric posted:

Each contact has a list of things she/he is good for on the little slip you get at the end of a mission.  So, for example, Quantum Princess can provide, "Computer Gear, Information, Jobs,"  making her good contact for a decker character wanting access to upgrades down the line.  Using her to find an Ares Alpha might be a little trickier--that would be more in line with the kinds of services Goober can provide.  Both Lothan and Simon can provide magical gear--Simon is better connected, but you end up working for SK.  It's a tradeoff.

[ImaginalDisc]

Trickier question:

Fees?

How much should a contact take when buying for you, selling for you, setting up meets, and so on?

Should loyalty be a factor?