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'Ware in Prison

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Solarious

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« on: <02-03-14/1423:53> »
I have an idea for a character that specializes in breaking out of places rather then in.
Seems like a reasonable strategy to me to get into a building by getting yourself caught and then hauled in by security then break out somehow. He'll also be primarily employed (prior to the game) by people to help break people out of prison.

But that isnt really here nor there for this particular post.

My question is about what measures prison or smaller security personal would do to keep from using there body mods. I see the 5e book has head hammers to stop usage of implanted commlinks (which seems to me you could get away with by putting it in your body or leg or something), but what is keeping someone in detainment from piping out a cyberrazor, or using a simrig to hack the security bots, or really bioware in any way?

Kanly

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« Reply #1 on: <02-03-14/1427:32> »
You won't be hacking without a deck, so that's covered.

There's probably extremely strong jamming all over.

I imagine implanted weapons get removed?

Possibly some other dangerous ware could get removed or disabled too.

Solarious

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« Reply #2 on: <02-03-14/1450:51> »
Decks can be implanted too.

And what about when you are picked up by facility security and you have 10 min to get free and get out before the big guns show up to haul you away?

Or what about things like tailored pheromones and pain editors?

firebug

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« Reply #3 on: <02-03-14/1453:25> »
If I were a warden of a prison, I'd probably spend part of the budget on essentially bum cyberlimbs.  Very basic, very obvious, very weak limbs.  Any cyberlimbs would be confiscated (and sold if the prisoner ever dies) and replaced with them.  Then I'd have either a specialist or just the security hacker format any other cyberware so that it cannot be activated without an extended test, which none of the prisoners could do, because they wouldn't have access to commlinks or any device capable of performing matrix actions.  Alternatively, if that doesn't work the way I think it does, simple surgically disabling them so they would only work after an extended Hardware test (which no prisoner would have the tools for).

Thinks like cyberspurs would probably be full-on removed along with anything else like that.  Cyberguns stay in, since without ammo they're useless.

As for Bioware...  Hard to say.  It and things like Dermal Plating or Muscle Replacement can't really just be taken out.  Such prisoners would probably be kept in entirely different cells in a more high-security prison where they couldn't just force their way out.  As for killing other prisoners...  I doubt Lone Star really cares about that sort of thing.
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farothel

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« Reply #4 on: <02-03-14/1537:31> »
Everything that was put in, can be taken out.  While I don't think they will take your cybereyes out, everything with an F rating will be removed, no matter where and what it is.  If that makes you sit in a wheelchair because you had cyberlegs with something in that you shouldn't have, that's your problem, not theirs.
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Solarious

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« Reply #5 on: <02-03-14/1539:51> »
Yeah....I see my character as more a finess face/infiltrator (exflitrator?) rather then a punch through walls and shot everything Samurai. I want to be able to slide under the radar so to speak and not immediately be picked out as a threat. Restricted gear at the most.

God this guy is going to fly through criminal SINs.
Oh well- I imagine they're probably cheaper.

What mods should I look for?
I would think Enchanced Articulation is a must.
And maybe something to be able to shrug off damage more easily?
I think I'm looking forward to at least a mild beating before being taken in.

Also, what about prison made tools to do mods or remove (secretly) any restrictions placed on you.

Isn't this really something all Shadowrunners should think about?
Realistically any criminal is going to get busted sooner or later.

JackVII

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« Reply #6 on: <02-03-14/1545:48> »
What mods should I look for?

Also, what about prison made tools to do mods or remove (secretly) any restrictions placed on you.
Probably take bio over cyber. It's harder to detect in most cases. Also, take many ranks in Industrial Engineering, which should help ypou the most with B/R prison tools. Also, possibly the Juryrigger PQ.
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Emperors Grace

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« Reply #7 on: <02-03-14/1726:02> »
I'd argue that they take out what they can and disable or jam what they can't take out.

I'm just getting back in (to 5th after doing 1st/2nd years ago) but don't they have restraint devices for suborbital travel, etc...  I seem to remember that.   Restraining bolts (like R2-D2 and C-3PO had  :)).


Of course, they could also just send you to "the vault" (Think supermax with iron man (non wireless, natch) suited guards).
« Last Edit: <02-03-14/1728:10> by Emperors Grace »

PeterSmith

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« Reply #8 on: <02-03-14/1727:12> »
Cyberguns stay in, since without ammo they're useless.

I'd take them out, on the assumption that some prisoner will either smuggle ammo in or come up with something.
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Emperors Grace

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« Reply #9 on: <02-03-14/1731:54> »
Or just have the doc remove just the barrel. I'm assuming they wear out occasionally and it's relatively easy to do (for the medically trained).  The ganger would find it impossible to operate and is unlikely to be able to replace it while incarcerated.  If structure is a concern, the barrel void could be temp filled with a pvc plug or such.

farothel

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« Reply #10 on: <02-04-14/1148:07> »
They don't care about structural damage to inmates.  And since most cyberguns will be added as capacity on a cyber arm or leg, it's fairly easy to remove the gun without damaging the rest of the arm/leg.
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Beaumis

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« Reply #11 on: <02-04-14/1933:58> »
I think a lot of this is working of modern prison assumptions. Plenty of prisons in SR are for profit private facilities. Unless something pays off in the long run, they are not going to invest money into it. This means that unless it's really simple to remove or disable, they are not going to bother with it and instead just throw the guy into a hole in the ground. Trampling a persons rights is a lot cheaper than making him fit for staying with the general population, especially when that someone is a SINles. This even applies for the non private prisons.

As far as physical improvements go, I'd think a prison would be build with those in mind, so none cares for your muscle replacement. You'll simply be assigned appropriate work duty. Comlinks get likely removed as well on top of jammed.They probably remove cyberlimbs as Firebug said and are likely to remove the blades and such from spurs etc. since it's easy to do. Other cyber weapons, move-by-wire, heavy duty wired reflexes or other stuff that turns people into walking weapons simply get thrown in solitary with no contact to the world whatsoever.

I'd also like to point out that being SINles in a corporate for profit prison is about the worst possible place in the world. The corps need to test all those new drugs, implants, nerve agents, vaccines, bio weapons etc. on *someone*. Guess who volunteered by getting caught. And if you're trouble? Well, none is going to check whether or not you're serving your time alive or dead. Legally, you don't exist anyway.

RHat

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« Reply #12 on: <02-04-14/1944:45> »
Er...  SINless people winding up in prison cease to be SINless - they are assigned a Criminal SIN.
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JackVII

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« Reply #13 on: <02-04-14/2007:15> »
I just figured someone would invent an industrial strength tag eraser. So what if a few inmates' hearts can't take it?
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Mithlas

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« Reply #14 on: <02-04-14/2338:11> »
I think a few people are forgetting many modern insurance scams standard practices - you can't collect paychecks for a known dead person, and it's not cheap or easy (necessarily) to hide the death of an inmate plan holder.

There may not be much data yet in 5E, but Augmentation in 4E had a lot of information on surgery and costs. Installing cyberware takes a while and it's not cheap. Removing it would be pretty much the same. Now I haven't seen it in a cyberpunk game, but in a Rifts game I played my cyborg character had to have an engineer shut off his weapons before going into a fortified city. It wouldn't be fast - maybe minutes, maybe hours, but I think Shadowrun would take much the same route. Why spend the money on a doctor good enough to remove and install cyberware you'd have to fund (especially when that wouldn't be an option on extensive ware like Muscle Replacement or Move By Wire)? It would be much faster and cheaper to have a moderately skilled cyberdoctor get into the ware itself and cut a few fiberoptic cables or make similarly small but critically important components disconnected.

Unless something pays off in the long run, they are not going to invest money into it. This means that unless it's really simple to remove or disable, they are not going to bother with it and instead just throw the guy into a hole in the ground. Trampling a persons rights is a lot cheaper than making him fit for staying with the general population, especially when that someone is a SINles.
PR and contracts (and therefore nuyen) are won by making it look like you can throw anybody into a cooperative general population, that's why even China has had to make adjustments when spies kept feeding abuses to Amnesty International. If you can build the same standardized cells to hold a lightly 'wared go-ganger and a chromed-but-captured sam then you're going to try to do so because that's good PR and it's a lot cheaper to build and maintain. Solitary cells are low capacity and cost a significant more to keep up (even if you're The Party).

The corps need to test all those new drugs, implants, nerve agents, vaccines, bio weapons etc. on *someone*. Guess who volunteered by getting caught. Legally, you don't exist anyway.
I agree with you about the testing - that's happened to various degrees across history. Social game theory when prisons were still a new idea and all the way into rumors of gene therapy in the modern day...but remember that corps want a return on their investment. A company that goes through lots of expendable assets is not as profitable as a company making use and re-use of its expendable assets. You've still got to pay for getting those people in, besides other things, and if they're still alive you can plumb their families or parent corps/nations for subsidy money.