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'Ware in Prison

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« Reply #15 on: <02-05-14/0105:11> »
They might also force you to hand over the access codes to the cyberware, slave it to the prison computers and have their deckers keep an eye on you, and essentially be able to shut you down completely if necessary. As long as you behave nothing bad happens, but if needed suddenly all your limbs go limp.

Dunno if that's really possible, but I'd suspect without an actual cyberdeck or at least commlink you'd have a hard time reversing any of that. And implanted decks/commlinks they'll probably take out or destroy.

DeathStrobe

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« Reply #16 on: <02-05-14/0159:13> »
It'd be cheaper and easier to slap trodes on the prisoner and force them in to the Matrix, rather then put them under the knife to remove and then add the ware back after incarceration.

Head decks would probably be removed or bricked before this point. And I could see Technomancers being very problematic if they were unknowingly incarcerated in a prison host.

Beaumis

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« Reply #17 on: <02-05-14/0626:18> »
Er...  SINless people winding up in prison cease to be SINless - they are assigned a Criminal SIN.
You are right, I forgot. But people fall through the cracks all the time and the people in the system remember that you started SINles. Also, this only applies for prisons that are part of governments (regardless of who runs them). Corp prisons don't issue SINs.

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PR and contracts (and therefore nuyen) are won by making it look like you can throw anybody into a cooperative general population, that's why even China has had to make adjustments when spies kept feeding abuses to Amnesty International
SR is a world in which the Barrens exist side by side to extraterritorial corporate buildings with their own laws. Just how often do you think Amnesty International worries about about people sentenced for their crimes when there are so many other human rights violations in the so called civilized cities? How many people actually care? Nations like the Tirs, Aztlan and such probably don't even let Amnesty International in.

Given the setting of SR, I wouldn't be surprised if keeping certain individuals in inhumane solitary confinement is good PR.. .


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« Reply #18 on: <02-05-14/0639:14> »
You are right, I forgot. But people fall through the cracks all the time and the people in the system remember that you started SINles. Also, this only applies for prisons that are part of governments (regardless of who runs them). Corp prisons don't issue SINs.

That would be the "didn't even make it to prison" problem - if you don't put them in the system at all, you have nothing to account for.
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Maelstrom

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« Reply #19 on: <02-05-14/1216:37> »
if you don't put them in the system at all, you have nothing to account for.

Now that is just scary.

farothel

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« Reply #20 on: <02-05-14/1443:43> »
It'd be cheaper and easier to slap trodes on the prisoner and force them in to the Matrix, rather then put them under the knife to remove and then add the ware back after incarceration.

Head decks would probably be removed or bricked before this point. And I could see Technomancers being very problematic if they were unknowingly incarcerated in a prison host.

Who said anything about giving that stuff back.  Cyberlimbs they probably won't remove (unless you're annoying them), but everything else you don't need.  I'm quite sure that a lot of secondhand 'ware comes out of the prisons and is funneled into the black market as an extra source of income.  Especially in corp prisons.  And the good part of it is that they can sell it, wait until the new owner (who buys second hand because he can't afford anything new) commits a crime and is imprisoned and then they do it again.  And again....
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RHat

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« Reply #21 on: <02-05-14/1516:24> »
It'd be cheaper and easier to slap trodes on the prisoner and force them in to the Matrix, rather then put them under the knife to remove and then add the ware back after incarceration.

Head decks would probably be removed or bricked before this point. And I could see Technomancers being very problematic if they were unknowingly incarcerated in a prison host.

Who said anything about giving that stuff back.  Cyberlimbs they probably won't remove (unless you're annoying them), but everything else you don't need.  I'm quite sure that a lot of secondhand 'ware comes out of the prisons and is funneled into the black market as an extra source of income.  Especially in corp prisons.  And the good part of it is that they can sell it, wait until the new owner (who buys second hand because he can't afford anything new) commits a crime and is imprisoned and then they do it again.  And again....


Property is still property - aside from forbidden stuff or restricted stuff you're no longer eligible for (or used a fake licence for in the first place), they can't just sell your shit.
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JackVII

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« Reply #22 on: <02-05-14/1521:09> »
Well, I could easily see an expansion of the drug property seizure laws to allow a for profit company to seize any assets, not just those used in the course of a crime. from a convicted person to defray the costs of bringing them to "justice."
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PeterSmith

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« Reply #23 on: <02-05-14/1530:24> »
Property is still property - aside from forbidden stuff or restricted stuff you're no longer eligible for (or used a fake licence for in the first place), they can't just sell your shit.

Unless the megas write laws that say they can. In their territory, they can do that. Slap you with the Criminal SIN, and then slap you around.
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Absolute power is kinda neat.

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RHat

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« Reply #24 on: <02-05-14/1531:45> »
Well, I could easily see an expansion of the drug property seizure laws to allow a for profit company to seize any assets, not just those used in the course of a crime. from a convicted person to defray the costs of bringing them to "justice."
That doesn't seem like a reasonable extension to me, even in the dystopia.  The idea of property does pretty seriously matter, after all.

Extraterritorial stuff is one thing, but if you're being held for crimes under UCAS law, I doubt you even COULD be held in an extraterritorial prison - that would basically be extradition.
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JackVII

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« Reply #25 on: <02-05-14/1541:15> »
Extraterritorial stuff is one thing, but if you're being held for crimes under UCAS law, I doubt you even COULD be held in an extraterritorial prison - that would basically be extradition.
Considering Lone Star was granted extraterritorial status, that basically means that a foreign police force is keeping the peace in a number of different nations. I don't see there being that big of a difference, personally.
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RHat

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« Reply #26 on: <02-05-14/1542:21> »
Extraterritorial stuff is one thing, but if you're being held for crimes under UCAS law, I doubt you even COULD be held in an extraterritorial prison - that would basically be extradition.
Considering Lone Star was granted extraterritorial status, that basically means that a foreign police force is keeping the peace in a number of different areas. I don't see there being that big of a difference, personally.
Extraterritorial status, though, doesn't mean that all of your employees are your own citizens, nor that ALL of your facilities are extraterritorial.
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JackVII

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« Reply #27 on: <02-05-14/1545:19> »
Extraterritorial stuff is one thing, but if you're being held for crimes under UCAS law, I doubt you even COULD be held in an extraterritorial prison - that would basically be extradition.
Considering Lone Star was granted extraterritorial status, that basically means that a foreign police force is keeping the peace in a number of different areas. I don't see there being that big of a difference, personally.
Extraterritorial status, though, doesn't mean that all of your employees are your own citizens, nor that ALL of your facilities are extraterritorial.
...and that's fine. I don't know why you would think the extraterritorial corp would even have to be operating their own facilities to pull this off. Real world we have private prison contractors who use state maintained facilities.

So I still don't understand why you don't think that a corporation couldn't have brokered a deal with a municipality that would allow them to recoup the costs associated with investigating, arresting, and housing criminals that would allow them to lay claim to any and all of the criminal's property necessary to remove the red from their balance sheet.
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RHat

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« Reply #28 on: <02-05-14/1547:04> »
Extraterritorial stuff is one thing, but if you're being held for crimes under UCAS law, I doubt you even COULD be held in an extraterritorial prison - that would basically be extradition.
Considering Lone Star was granted extraterritorial status, that basically means that a foreign police force is keeping the peace in a number of different areas. I don't see there being that big of a difference, personally.
Extraterritorial status, though, doesn't mean that all of your employees are your own citizens, nor that ALL of your facilities are extraterritorial.
So I still don't understand why you don't think that a corporation couldn't have brokered a deal with a municipality that would allow them to recoup the costs associated with investigating, arresting, and housing criminals that would allow them to lay claim to any and all of the criminal's property necessary to remove the red from their balance sheet.
Because the municipality itself can't make that deal; they have no legal right to the legal property of those individuals.

When it comes to recouping costs, it would actually be done through using the prisoners as an extremely cheap or even free labour force.
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JackVII

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« Reply #29 on: <02-05-14/1551:56> »
Because the municipality itself can't make that deal; they have no legal right to the legal property of those individuals.
I guess that depends on where you live. In the states, if the authorities can make a suitable connection between property and the commission of a drug crime, they can take it, and fairly easily. A large number of police forces rely on revenues raised from the sale of this property to fund operations.
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