NEWS

Legal Gear

  • 110 Replies
  • 18062 Views

DeathStrobe

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 864
  • Front Range Free Decker
    • Dethstrobe.com
« Reply #30 on: (18:17:10/11-14-13) »
Sure, maybe having a suit tailor made has a wait time. But do you then still need to make all those availability rolls for it? Why? It is available: someone is making it for you right now! It should just have a wait time then.

I'd like to hear from people here what they tell their player in this situation:

Player: "I go to a hunting shop!"
GM: "Alright."
Player: "I enter and look at the merchandise."
GM: "Ok?"
Player: "I take a nice bow off the shelves and pay for it with my R6 Fake SIN as cover!"

Surely you don't go "Alright, roll to see how many days it'll take you." at that point?

No, but after he uses that bow in a crime, I'll have the Pawns register his Fake SIN as a person of interest to watchout for. And if he purchases another item send the Pawns to pick him up, since he just left a paper trail leading to himself. And while its possible that he'll just go in for a bit of questioning, if they find any other illegal gear on him, he'll be arrested.

Though, it might not escalate that quickly. I was just exaggerating to make the point.

But keeping things off the record is moderately important for professional criminals. So you probably want gear that's completely illegal, and not just stuff tied to your fake SIN.

Unahim

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 789
« Reply #31 on: (18:26:23/11-14-13) »
Actually, you do: The bow won't actually be in stock, but you'll just see a nice ARO of it. Then you smoothtalk them into ordering it for you and depending on how nice you are, they try harder or don't bother and tell you after a few days "sorry, your order fell through".

I don't think a business like this which has nothing in stock makes any actual sense, from a business standpoint. The first place to actually have things in stock would make a killing over their competition. Why even have physical stores if you end up having to order anyway? They'd all just be matrix stores then. So no, I do not think this answer satisfactory.

And DeathStrobe, we're on the same page there. The argument was never to have there be 0 consequence for the PC, but sometimes you just want/need a piece of gear right away, now, and are prepared to face the consequences later. Or you're so well prepared that you manage to avoid problems. It's a bit of work, but possible. (A bow in particular is going to be hard to track, I'd say. Other items a bit easier though.)

Novocrane

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2225
« Reply #32 on: (19:01:36/11-14-13) »
Quote
I don't think a business like this which has nothing in stock makes any actual sense, from a business standpoint. The first place to actually have things in stock would make a killing over their competition.
Logic seems to be pointing in the direction of "that's not done / legal." If they have to resort to illegal methods to provide such a market, you might refer to it with some colour that has negative connotations to contrast with the legal method ...

I could be completely wrong here, but when something brings up responses like yours quoted, it makes me wonder.

spuwdsda

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 157
« Reply #33 on: (19:29:13/11-14-13) »

No, but after he uses that bow in a crime, I'll have the Pawns register his Fake SIN as a person of interest to watchout for. And if he purchases another item send the Pawns to pick him up, since he just left a paper trail leading to himself. And while its possible that he'll just go in for a bit of questioning, if they find any other illegal gear on him, he'll be arrested.

Though, it might not escalate that quickly. I was just exaggerating to make the point.

But keeping things off the record is moderately important for professional criminals. So you probably want gear that's completely illegal, and not just stuff tied to your fake SIN.

It's a management of risk. A gun will leave a unique mark on any round it fires. If Joe Average (aka Razor McNail) brought a gun on a fake SIN and used it in a crime, then Joe Average may be wanted for questioning. Effectively that SIN is burnt. Worse, the shop might have a Trid recording of Joe/Razor. However, this is all beside the point! None of this is a point of dispute!

Whether or not a shop like http://www.lancasterarchery.com/ exists near Joe/Razor, is also beside the point. These things are entirely ymmv things, up to individual GMs/groups to decide.

For those who already know my point, I apologise for belabouring it. However, it seems I have not been clear enough for some.

My position is: There are no mechanics by RAW to buy items, with availability, retail. I would have appreciated some.

« Last Edit: (19:35:05/11-14-13) by spuwdsda »

Trollbait

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Soycaf. Now!
« Reply #34 on: (01:45:44/11-15-13) »
Availability for legal items could show how likely they are to be sold out or not a commonly stocked item. The waiting time would be the shop making it or getting one in for you, or police and credit checks. Change the test to something else that better represents dealing with the sales clerk if you like.
Stay calm and aim carefully

Nico

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 40
« Reply #35 on: (01:54:36/11-15-13) »
[...] if you have never played SR before you may not understand how all these things work.
Is no one else worried by how casually this line is strewn in?

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8836
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #36 on: (06:53:07/11-15-13) »
You don't need to understand the details, really. You see you roll for any item that doesn't have a - as Availability, so you ask your contacts to do it for you and the GM handles it.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

spuwdsda

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 157
« Reply #37 on: (07:08:09/11-15-13) »
You don't need to understand the details, really. You see you roll for any item that doesn't have a - as Availability, so you ask your contacts to do it for you and the GM handles it.

Sorry, you need to clarify your position.

Are you proposing, a house rule, that buying retail should by treated mechanically exactly like a black market purchase?

N.B. I am making no comment on the merits of this house rule. I just want to know whether you are suggesting one or not. Or are you maintaining that your views are RAW or RAI?

Elektrycerze3

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 636
  • Russian Decker
« Reply #38 on: (07:14:04/11-15-13) »
It just occured to me, that in Chasin' the Wind (SR Mission 5-1), there is a scene, [spoiler]where characters come to some kind of tech-market, and the adventure allows to buy anything up to A4-6 (I don't remember exactly) without rolling. Like, you're already at a market, no need to spend time looking for stuff.[/spoiler]

You could always use that as a guideline. I'm cool with my players rolling though.

slipped
Speech | Matrix/Communication | Thought | Astral
“Forget hackers, I have my buddies Smith & Wesson: innovators of the point-and-click interface.”

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8836
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #39 on: (08:08:26/11-15-13) »
Sorry, you need to clarify your position.
No I don't. I stepped out of your debate because you made clear you did not want an actual debate, that you merely wanted me to state a position so that you could bash it down. The fact that you now went to actually denying RAW rather than just debating RAI, shows this isn't a debate at all, it's a show. And I stepped out of it, so I will not be dragged back into it by a demand to clarify myself.

My post has NOTHING to do with your debate. It merely responded to someone's concern regarding new players and their understanding of the rules. So no, I do not need to clarify my position to you.

[...] if you have never played SR before you may not understand how all these things work.
Is no one else worried by how casually this line is strewn in?
You don't need to understand the details, really. You see you roll for any item that doesn't have a - as Availability, so you ask your contacts to do it for you and the GM handles it.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

spuwdsda

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 157
« Reply #40 on: (08:23:08/11-15-13) »
Sorry, you need to clarify your position.
No I don't. I stepped out of your debate because you made clear you did not want an actual debate, that you merely wanted me to state a position so that you could bash it down. The fact that you now went to actually denying RAW rather than just debating RAI, shows this isn't a debate at all, it's a show. And I stepped out of it, so I will not be dragged back into it by a demand to clarify myself.

My post has NOTHING to do with your debate. It merely responded to someone's concern regarding new players and their understanding of the rules. So no, I do not need to clarify my position to you.

But you just did..

My claim is: There is no RAW mechanics for purchasing, items with availability, retail.

Your claim is: I am denying RAW

Your problem is that you cannot defend your claim. So you evade. Defend your claim or let your evasion/silence be your testimony.

Elektrycerze3

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 636
  • Russian Decker
« Reply #41 on: (08:27:01/11-15-13) »
Your problem is that you cannot defend your claim. So you evade. Defend your claim or let your evasion/silence be your testimony.

The only thing it testifies is that someone here lacks manners and so nobody bothers with helping or getting involved in your "debate".
Speech | Matrix/Communication | Thought | Astral
“Forget hackers, I have my buddies Smith & Wesson: innovators of the point-and-click interface.”

spuwdsda

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 157
« Reply #42 on: (08:50:46/11-15-13) »
Ad hominem...

Xenon

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 5265
« Reply #43 on: (10:27:59/11-15-13) »
you might also want to buy the item ON the records to create false dead end leads, as a first step to set someone up for a murder they did not commit or to have a valid data trail to enhance the fake identity you are building up for a particular run... there are probably ton of reasons why you at least would want to have the option to buy items ON the record and not just OFF the record from the black market...


(please open a new thread or use PM if you want to continue to discuss general forum etiquette)

ZeConster

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2556
« Reply #44 on: (11:33:35/11-15-13) »
Ad hominem...
Is what you're constantly resorting to rather than trying to have a civil discussion, yes.