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Vehicle launch weapons

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Chaemera

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« Reply #15 on: <12-15-10/1723:18> »
Nope, the only thing in War! that I saw, as relates to launch weapons, is the Aztechnology Sextillo, a cruise missile which loads 6 independently targetable launch weapons.
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Mäx

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« Reply #16 on: <12-16-10/1645:13> »
Well atleast the planes in it have lot more weapon mounts then the pathetic Eagle-C and reinforced weapon mounts to boot, not normal ones.
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hobgoblin

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« Reply #17 on: <12-17-10/1441:24> »
How did they pull that off? Writer fiat or insane body stats?
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« Reply #18 on: <12-17-10/1526:51> »
How did they pull that off? Writer fiat or insane body stats?
Writer fiat from those 2 options, but standard upgrades aren't in anyway limited by the modding rules, so the term doesn't really ably.
Hell the Reaper drone in This old Drone has 4 weapon mounts and it's body 2 drone.
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Chaemera

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« Reply #19 on: <12-17-10/2128:38> »
Personally, I am pretty liberal about tossing out the "1 weapon mount per 3 body" general principle, myself. I weigh it by what weapons you're mounting. Five SMGs or pistols on a Doberman? Sure, that could work if they're fixed mounts. Look silly as hell, but it would work. Two gauss cannons on a jackrabbit? Okay, now we're going to have to rethink things...

Granted, by cheesing the fact that the 11 weapon mounts on the CI-89 Fighter-Bomber are standard mounts, even using the 1 for 3 rule, at Body 17, that's an additional 5 weapon mounts. That leaves 7 more points of Body to put the rest of the stuff you want. Yeah, I think the poor Eagle-C should be errata'd to fit in with the new kids on the block a little better.

And it's worth noting that I may have been wrong before, when I said that it's 1 reinforced weapon mount per 6 body, the rule reads as a simple 1 weapon mount per 3 body (pg. 147, Arsenal), regardless of it's size.
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Mäx

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« Reply #20 on: <12-18-10/0351:37> »
And it's worth noting that I may have been wrong before, when I said that it's 1 reinforced weapon mount per 6 body, the rule reads as a simple 1 weapon mount per 3 body (pg. 147, Arsenal), regardless of it's size.
If you read like a one sentence futher your notice the part saying that reinforced mounts count as 2 weapon mounts ;)
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Chaemera

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« Reply #21 on: <12-18-10/0942:04> »
Bah, shush you!  :-[

I love how I can manage to read something right, then read it again and completely miss it because I'm skimming the text looking for "6 points of Body" or similar, and miss the completely plain as day "counts as two normal weapon mounts".
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hobgoblin

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« Reply #22 on: <12-18-10/0958:55> »
Ok, i was able to check the War vehicle stats. And from what i can tell all combat aircrafts come with a specified number of hardpoints. So maybe i should change the request to get a number of hardpoints errated onto the FB Eagle, as every other vehicle have them already (tho the Aztech Aguilar have them assigned to hail barrage launchers).
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Chaemera

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« Reply #23 on: <12-18-10/1021:28> »
Ok, i was able to check the War vehicle stats. And from what i can tell all combat aircrafts come with a specified number of hardpoints. So maybe i should change the request to get a number of hardpoints errated onto the FB Eagle, as every other vehicle have them already (tho the Aztech Aguilar have them assigned to hail barrage launchers).

That's where I'd lean at this point, make the Eagle-C competitive with other fighter craft of it's generation! It's the most expensive fighter plane available, it should have quality to compensate. The YNT Kanyuk Interceptor is an "8th Generation" fighter/interceptor, and it costs 30% of the Eagle, and has Body 4 lower... Also, what the heck is an "8th Generation" jet fighter...

For Reference (note, categories are rough and based on similarities, it's possible for a previous gen to have some of the features of a next gen):
First Gen - Prototypical jet fighters, weren't always better than prop fighters
Second Gen - Swept wing / delta wing forms, afterburners allowing super-sonic flight, onboard radar, first reliable IR air to air missiles.
Third Gen - Focus on Air-to-Air missiles for areal combat, renewed interest in Ground-attack capabilities resulting in reliable Multi-role fighters, analog avionics replacing steam guage instrumentation.
Fourth Gen - Fly By Wire introduced, RSS, OODA, and EM Theory resulting in highly maneuverable true multi-role fighters
Fight Gen - Matrix-ready (okay, they call it "net-centric", but we know the truth), AESA radars and integrated stealth features.

I know, the terms were coined by corporations to sell warplanes, and some people use clusters of years to define generation, but I prefer the technology-based approach. You build me a fighter jet relying on steam guage avionics with a swept wing and afterburners, you have yourself a 2nd gen fighter, regardless of when you built it.
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hobgoblin

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« Reply #24 on: <12-18-10/2005:49> »
so, would 15 reinforced hardpoints be pushing it? ;)
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Chaemera

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« Reply #25 on: <12-18-10/2038:19> »
so, would 15 reinforced hardpoints be pushing it? ;)

Well, the fighter/bomber (CI-89 Vicious) gets 11 reinforced mounts, so I think I'd be happy to see the following for the Eagle-C:

Std. Ugrades:
Improved VTOL 1 (has already)
Personal Armor 5 (has already)
Ejection Seat (has already)
Rigger Adaptation
6 Reinforced Weapon Mounts (external, fixed, remote control)
2 Reinforced Weapon Mounts (internal, fixed, remote control)

1 Normal Weapon Mount (internal, fixed, remote control) (has already)
Life Support (Level 1)
ECM 4 (has already)
ECCM 4 (has already)
Lock-on countermeasures

And drop the price to ¥5mil. I think this brings it more in line with the aircraft presented in War. Without these changes (or similar), I don't see how the thing is useful. With them, it's a beefy plane with about as much off-the-shelf fire power as the YNT Kanyuk Interceptor, but a lower top speed & better armor. Ideal for bomber escort, air superiority and ground-support assignments.

My thoughts on application (to explain the breakdown of weapon mounts):
Normal Weapon Mount: 1 Already there, 2 spot for an LMG for strafing ground targets (multi-role fighter, remember) and last ditch aerial combat.
2 Reinforced Internal: Your call (though I'd be consistent once chosen), either wing-oriented to provide two additional machine guns (this time, HMG's) for aerial combat and ground support or in the fuselage as bomb-bays for stealthy carriage of launch weapons.
6 Reinforced External: External, on the wings, mission configurable. Typically launch weapons or missile launchers, in either case, potentially fitted with one or more ammo bins.
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hobgoblin

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« Reply #26 on: <03-15-11/1954:27> »
Funny enough, it appears that milspectech lapsed in this. the aircrafts seems to have between 1 and 5 hardpoints so feel free to color me confused.
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Codac

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« Reply #27 on: <03-17-11/0106:15> »
I find that allot of the rules and stats for vehicles just aren't consistent between books so a FAQ would be nice. Also it would be nice if the descriptions included where the weapon mounts are on the vehicle and how many people can fit in it.
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mike-in-the-box

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« Reply #28 on: <06-05-11/0047:30> »
Just to add a little more confusion:

Arsenal Pg. 123, Main Guns states: "Unless otherwise noted, all of the following weapons can be
installed into Fixed Weapon Mounts or Heavy Turrets"

That means that even an Gauss Cannon can installed in a normal, fixed weapon mount (a light autocannon can even be installed in a flexible weapon mount, see the entry under light autocannon). That, or somebody forgot to write "reinforced".

Some lines later at the following page, under "Launch Weapons" : "The following weapons are large, self-propelled projectiles
that can be fired from specialized launch platforms or released from the wings of aircraft s and helicopters.

The interresting point here is that there is no mention of weapon mounts at all ( well, you can say maybe they confused launch platform with weapon mount, but to use 2 so different words for the same thing would be really stupid). The launch weapon attached to an aircraft is just realesed from its clamp, falls a little distance and then starts its engine, ne special mount needed.
The way i read it is that you just put launch weapons under a wing, in case of aircrafts, without the need for a weapon mount. Of course it can be stored in a weapon mount (for better concealment, for  example).
In case of other vehicles you need a weapon mount (cars, ships...just drop a missile from a ship or a car und start it may be funny, but not wise).

So, question: Why do some vehicles (in this case a bomber) need 11 reinforced weapon mounts? The only answer that make sense and i can come up with is: 2 reinforced weapon mounts can hold 1 cruise missile, which can be found under "Cruise Missiles" in War! (i would like to mention  the page, but i only possess the german version, which includes several additional content und different page numbers).

So, all in all: if you have a lot of weapon mounts, you can use 1 for some sort of cannon and the rest for other vehicle weapons, like the Hail Barrage (or even for single missiles). If you just have one or two weapon mounts you can use them for  cannons and attach some  missiles under the wings of your aircraft. That would reduce reinforced weapon mounts to carry cruise missiles and heavy turrets.

But i really have no idea why a fixed, flexible weapon mount can hold a light autocannon, but not an HMG...maybe they really forgot to write "reinforced"...."aren´t consistent" descripes it exactly.


Mike
« Last Edit: <06-05-11/0104:57> by mike-in-the-box »

hobgoblin

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« Reply #29 on: <06-05-11/1142:37> »
Thing is that with no weight system to limit the number of launch weapons, one could have a Eagle with infinity-1 weapons loaded.

Thing is that in earlier edition, to fire launch weapons, one not only needed a reinforced weapon mount but also a launch system/computer that handled the weapons. So it could be a poor conversion of the earlier edition thinking into SR4 that we see the residue from.

And Unfriendly Skies is back to lowballing the number of weapon mounts (none marked as reinforced, heh). A 3000000 fighter with 3 mounts?!
« Last Edit: <06-05-11/1146:05> by hobgoblin »
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