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HELP! Humanitarian Aid....

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samiam

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« Reply #30 on: (18:09:35/11-25-13) »
Drain is a Damage Resistance test rather than a Magic-linked test.

Basically, background count affects anything that includes a test linked to the Magic attribute or is performed while Dual-Natured (Astrally Perceiving or Astral Projecting).

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #31 on: (18:14:34/11-25-13) »
Except that it's not a simple matter of Magic-linked tests being penalized in SR5. It's all tests that in any way profit from any sort of magical ability. For example, Initiative. So it's a bit confusing. I don't think it gets penalized, but it's not as clean-cut as one might think.
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Critter

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« Reply #32 on: (19:56:13/11-25-13) »
See, now I am more confused than ever. Bull, where for art thou?
There's always one PC who just can't go with the flow.  They have to have something that sets them apart.  Something blatantly obvious to everyone who plays with them.

Bull

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« Reply #33 on: (21:42:52/11-25-13) »
This really needs clarified, and will hopefully have more information in the Magic Splat, whenever that comes out.  For the time being though, treat it like you would a wound penalty, except it only applies when magic abilities are used.  So -X to initiative, and -dice to tests, and it doesn't effect damage resistance (which includes drain tests).

Critter

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« Reply #34 on: (21:45:08/11-25-13) »
Woohoo, I can cast in Chicago without worrying so much about killing myself!

There's always one PC who just can't go with the flow.  They have to have something that sets them apart.  Something blatantly obvious to everyone who plays with them.

Fedifensor

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« Reply #35 on: (13:28:14/10-04-14) »
How does Street Grimoire affect running this module?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #36 on: (13:33:03/10-04-14) »
I'd consider it official now that the doc is meant to have 4 Edge in SR5, so go with that. Background Count is still nasty, so unless a runner has Adept Centering or Cleansing they'll have a hard time. The main question remains whether Possession is supposed to give Immunity.
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Fedifensor

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« Reply #37 on: (02:47:01/10-11-14) »
Okay, I've had a chance to read through the entire module, and this thread.  So, I have a few questions/comments:
  • Two of my players have Ares Alpha assault rifles with the underbarrel grenade launcher.  My thought is that the initial Shedim will be easily dispatched with a few grenades, but the PCs won't be able to do the same with the Master Shedim because John will be too close.  Should I put extra effort into the first fight, or concentrate on what happens once the big guy arrives?
  • The module states, "The shedim's first attacks will always be attempts to dislodge the breathers from the runners."  I assume this means hitting with a successful Unarmed combat roll? 
  • I know there was talk about Toxic Wave, but I would prefer to use Ball Lightning instead.  It slows down the PCs, giving the big bad more time to act.  Is there something I'm overlooking?
  • Does the good Doctor have any way to sustain spells?  There doesn't seem much point to casting Armor if it's going to give him a penalty to sustain.
  • If the Master Shedim wants to destroy the vaccine, I don't see a way the PCs can stop him.  A single Ball Lightning or Toxic Wave would wipe out the entire shipment, especially cast at Force 8.  Would he take the action to do this, if it means having his physical form destroyed by the runners' retaliatory attacks?
  • If the Doctor has Immunity to Physical Weapons, he's nearly unkillable (ignores attacks of 15 DV or less, 8 auto successes on Damage Resistance, plus a 19-die Defense pool), so I'm going with the interpretation that he doesn't have Immunity.  However, the lack of any armor and only an 8 Body means he'll only last until a character can get one or two hits.  Even with that Defense pool, full auto from two highly skilled Street Samurai with assault rifles will quickly tear him apart.  Should I add a bit of armor (maybe Armor Clothing) to compensate?
  • The group focuses on ranged combat for the most part, which is a good thing since I don't see how they're going to get within 8 meters of him.  None of their Charisma + Willpower pools is anywhere close to 16 dice.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #38 on: (06:13:08/10-11-14) »
Immunity to Normal Weapons still suffers from AP though. You mention Ares Alphas, with APDS that's 11P/-6 and thus it will always pierce the Immunity. So let's assume they hit with 1 net hit, that's 12P/-6 vs 8 Body, 16-6 = 10 Immunity, 5 hits on the Armor spell. So 8+10+5 soak, and 10/2 = 5 autohits. At 1 net hit it's ~1/3 chance to actually do damage, with 2 damage done average on a hit. It's a dogfight at that point. A Magical Indirect Combat Spell would solely face 8 Body and 5 Armor from the spell, and he only has that 5 Armor against any non-Physical attacks.

If he doesn't have Armor, hitting will be far more difficult due to the -2 sustaining penalty not applying. A damaging hit will be more likely then, but only if they still manage to hit and then they likely would have done more damage (due to an extra net hit) in the first place. I'd use the Armor spell, it makes sense from the doc's perspective. And 3 net hits instead of 1 already is 2/3 chance to hit instead.

As for destroying the Shipment with a single spell, first of that's a bit of a silly move for the doctor since he cannot easily recover from Drain, while the crates may very well be resistant enough to not lose everything inside on the first attack. And he also should focus on his enemies. As for Toxic Wave, it just fits more with the environment y'know?

If you think the players lack the kind of tricks needed to hit him, consider making him show up completely alone. But please stick to the designer intent that he has Immunity, because as you say otherwise it's far too easy. It's the climactical boss fight, and you can always make John wake up and join the fight if that doesn't work.
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Fedifensor

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« Reply #39 on: (11:34:09/10-11-14) »
Immunity to Normal Weapons still suffers from AP though. You mention Ares Alphas, with APDS that's 11P/-6 and thus it will always pierce the Immunity. So let's assume they hit with 1 net hit, that's 12P/-6 vs 8 Body, 16-6 = 10 Immunity, 5 hits on the Armor spell. So 8+10+5 soak, and 10/2 = 5 autohits. At 1 net hit it's ~1/3 chance to actually do damage, with 2 damage done average on a hit. It's a dogfight at that point. A Magical Indirect Combat Spell would solely face 8 Body and 5 Armor from the spell, and he only has that 5 Armor against any non-Physical attacks.

If he doesn't have Armor, hitting will be far more difficult due to the -2 sustaining penalty not applying. A damaging hit will be more likely then, but only if they still manage to hit and then they likely would have done more damage (due to an extra net hit) in the first place. I'd use the Armor spell, it makes sense from the doc's perspective. And 3 net hits instead of 1 already is 2/3 chance to hit instead.

As for destroying the Shipment with a single spell, first of that's a bit of a silly move for the doctor since he cannot easily recover from Drain, while the crates may very well be resistant enough to not lose everything inside on the first attack. And he also should focus on his enemies. As for Toxic Wave, it just fits more with the environment y'know?

If you think the players lack the kind of tricks needed to hit him, consider making him show up completely alone. But please stick to the designer intent that he has Immunity, because as you say otherwise it's far too easy. It's the climactical boss fight, and you can always make John wake up and join the fight if that doesn't work.
The problem is that while one Street Samurai can do minimal damage through the Immunity (one uses APDS, the other uses Explosive ammo), the rest of the party has a tougher time in the fight.  The second Street Samurai's explosive ammo will bounce against the Immunity (12P, -3 AP).  The Face/Decker only has a light pistol, which means the only thing he can contribute is grabbing some of the serum and running.  The Mage will be taking -4 on his spells, which means he has 8 dice for casting (Spellcasting 6, Magic 6, -4 penalty), and not the greatest selection of spells versus the Doc (he normally uses Control Thoughts or Ball Lightning).  The Gunslinger Adept's main weapon is a light pistol, though fortunately she just picked up the Cavalier Arms Crocket EBR in Ashes and loaded it with EX - Explosive (14P, -4 AP) - which does enough damage to not bounce.  However, she's taking a -3 die penalty (she has Improved Agility 3 that she'll probably turn off) and no full-auto to help hit.  John, by the way, is useless against the Master Shedim if Immunity is in play - the machine pistol will bounce, as will his unarmed attacks.

My concern is that I don't want the fight to be fun only for a few characters...and I want to be consistent.  If the Master Shedim has Immunity, so will the normal Shedim, which completely changes the first fight.  I'm perfectly willing to bring in normal Shedim for the final fight if balance is an issue, but I'm on the side of the fence that feels the 5E Shedim don't have Immunity based on my reading of the rules.  Plus, this shouldn't be TOO long of a fight...even with worrying about Drain, the Doc's AoE spells can quickly turn this into a TPK.  On average, the Doc will get 5 hits versus drain, and can spend Edge to reroll failures.  The first spell he throws will probably be a Force 8 Ball Lightning.  By all rights, he should spend Edge on both the spell and the Drain resistance test, but I'll only have him do so on the latter.

Now, if I remove the Immunity, it makes far too much sense for the Doctor to have previously bought some Armor Clothing (or has stolen some from a victim).  I could go so far as to give him a Lined Coat without unbalancing things - it's less than 1000 nuyen, and it gives him a good soak

Shipment - With a Force 8 AoE spell, it's quite likely the Doc can hit the shipment AND at least some of the PCs.  Or, if he wants the shipment destroyed and is worried about Drain, he can cast it at a lower Force twice...which should still do enough damage to destroy a bunch of glass vials in boxes.

Toxic Wave versus Ball Lightning - Toxic Wave is overused in Missions...it seems like every spellcaster has it.  I wanted something different, and the Initiative penalty effectively gives the Doc more chances to act. 

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #40 on: (15:29:25/10-11-14) »
But 12p/-3 would pierce on one net hit. And no, as Bull said, Master Shedim only.
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