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ETA on Errata

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KraakenDazs

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« Reply #105 on: (15:56:30/12-18-13) »
Well, actually, yes.

I don't believe in the whole ''Rotten player wanting the moon thing.'' I dont believe the game should be up to any standard i set beyond whats advertised. If i buy a product and its not as good as i wish it was, well, thats disappointing, but its not the company's fault.

*However*, with that said. When there are gaping systematic holes in a rulebook, which i bought in order to be supplied the rules and material needed for a game, that is not being ''overly'' demanding in any way shape or form.  If the game doesnt have as elaborate a range of cyberware as i'd wish it. Boohoo for me, i have no rights to complain.

When the rules start giving me stats for grenades, and contradicting rules for their uses, or contradicting rule on combat rules, that is broken, and i see no harm in expecting it to be fixed. And again, my (personnal) claims come from over half a year of publication. Same if i play a video game. If the game's not as awesome as i'd expected it to be (read: Diablo 3) , i have no rights to complain. I got what i paid for: A game. I'm expecting the bug fixes, and i'm glad for added content, but i *cannot* expect or demand *that*. But bugfixes, yeah, fix those. And the SR system is completely filled with them. And again yes, sometimes it prevents you to play the game. I've had an hour long argument mid-combat not long ago, because players were arguing. They ended up BOTH able to show the rule they were arguing about, and they were contradicting. I ended the bickering by houseruling it. But its becoming a staple. And its frustrating.

Again, if the company's stance is ''We expect players to be smart enough to develop their own rules''...okay. Its their choices, and its mine wether to encourage it or not. My predicament here is trying to know ''Is something coming out about those issues, or not. Do i move on disappointed (through NO ONE else's fault but my own expectations), or do i stick around , grit my teeth and wait.

I'll never be one of those people who feels entitled to the moon, nor will i call the developpers bethind the system lazy, incompetent, or anything of the like, because its not true. They work hard, they have great ideas, and they want to do their best, otherwise, they wouldn't be game developpers. :P
« Last Edit: (04:32:59/07-09-14) by KraakenDazs »
Maybe, just maybe, concrete and Plasteel are MEANT to armor our planet, and not harm it, omae. Hydroponics can nourish our needy. And i assure you nuclear energy's been involved in getting you that fancy 'ware, chummer.Our mistake? Trading Wisdom for Greed. - Dögan "Babyface" Kross

Crunch

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« Reply #106 on: (15:58:48/12-18-13) »

Now what about the other part of my message. That about the lack of regular communication from CGL.

I see the CGL posters here daily. Aaron, Bull and the rest are constantly communicating. The errata thread launched the day of the pdf release and if you can find a page of it that didn't include a response from a freelancer or other CGL related person.  What you're complaining about is that there's no street date for the errata.

Catalyst doesn't do street dates until the product is ready to ship, and the errata will be an epub.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #107 on: (16:10:23/12-18-13) »
Can't say I agree with the personal attacks on Harebrained Schemes, Cliffhanger Productions and Catalyst Game Labs.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

KraakenDazs

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« Reply #108 on: (16:15:50/12-18-13) »

I see the CGL posters here daily. Aaron, Bull and the rest are constantly communicating. The errata thread launched the day of the pdf release and if you can find a page of it that didn't include a response from a freelancer or other CGL related person.  What you're complaining about is that there's no street date for the errata.

Well to be blunt and undefensive...yeah.

Last communication by Aaron on the Errata was in late August (4 months ago, about half the time *since* release.  The lack of a street date approximation is starting to hurt my desire to wait for it. Again, this is post-7 months of waiting and gaming issues that is spurring this resurgence in my expectations.

But it really wasn't a debate i was trying to start, nor an insurrexion mutiny (i...have no idea how to spell insurrection (?)...) . I'm just hoping a dev sees it at some point in a not so distant future and give us an update on the ETA so i can make up my mind (And something beyond the ''It'll happen when it happens'' or equivalents that has been posted around this board a few time. Don't really require an exact street date heh.

Plus, and as i've mentionned, it was also spurred on by the release dates of other SR products, which i believe is a bad idea buisness-wise considering the baseline rules for everything that comes down from it requires rework to start with. I was actually really interested in the equipement card, gm screen, whatnot. Figured that'd be things to make it onto the list of holidays and whatnots. But if the errata isnt out yet, and if it's subject to change, why would i purchase go-to tools (equipement , spells, and quick reference), without knowing if they'd also suffer from an errata. I have no interest in purchasing ''Go-to tools'' that'll require their own ''Go-to tools''.

Having an ETA. OR at least confirmation that the upcoming products would already include proper Errata, would go a long way, marketting wise. So those are my consumer's worries. I dont think i'm entitled to having my whims cattered to, but i feel my situation is one shared with others (to be frank, when i first came across those boards, it wasn't at first the community or the optimization or the discussions that reeled me in. I had a ton of rule questions :S) . At that point, it's entirely in CGL's hands, and i have absolutely no right to demand or expect anything. I'm sharing an opinion and a review of the situation, and hopes and suggestions on fixing a worrysome situation heh. I mentionned it a ton of times, but i dont encourage flaming against the devs or their work. They work hard, their job isn't easy, and i love their work and send out tons of respect to them.

It's a slim nuance between that and being a whiner baby, i concur, but i'm hoping to make it over the cut :P
« Last Edit: (04:35:23/07-09-14) by KraakenDazs »
Maybe, just maybe, concrete and Plasteel are MEANT to armor our planet, and not harm it, omae. Hydroponics can nourish our needy. And i assure you nuclear energy's been involved in getting you that fancy 'ware, chummer.Our mistake? Trading Wisdom for Greed. - Dögan "Babyface" Kross

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #109 on: (16:19:18/12-18-13) »
Whoa, wait up. I'm not a Freelancer, all I am is a voluntary demo agent, which simply means I host a Missions game every month. There is no official support behind any of my statements, which is why I mark my posts ((like this)) and try to reference official sources whenever possible.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

KraakenDazs

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« Reply #110 on: (16:21:04/12-18-13) »
Oh, my bad. I'll edit my post ;) .

I scrolled quickly in the ETA board and got mixed up between Freelancers, head moderator, and catalyst demo agent...!
(but yeah, you also often mention the caveat that you dont have the official say, which is why the last ''Official-ish'' statement i saw on the Eratta was around early september.

Anywayz, editing it!
Maybe, just maybe, concrete and Plasteel are MEANT to armor our planet, and not harm it, omae. Hydroponics can nourish our needy. And i assure you nuclear energy's been involved in getting you that fancy 'ware, chummer.Our mistake? Trading Wisdom for Greed. - Dögan "Babyface" Kross

Sichr

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« Reply #111 on: (16:48:06/12-18-13) »
Now what about the other part of my message. That about the lack of regular communication from CGL.

Irrelevant and simply proof that gamers these days are becoming spoiled rotten. Gaming functioned just fine back in the pre-internet days when "errata" wasn't known about and changes weren't seen until a reprint with said changes had already hit the shelves. Claiming that you "need errata to play the game" simply isn't true because of that simple fact.

Should I take it as personal insult?

Can't say I agree with the personal attacks on Harebrained Schemes, Cliffhanger Productions and Catalyst Game Labs.

Cannot say I see any. What I see are many people lured by bombastic marketing campaign and goals that are not met without any or with only little explanation.

Also funny there are some that love to be toyed with and adapt Stokcholm syndrome like behaviour, right, A4?

Aztech style, if you ask me.

And I dont blame freelancers that they avoid this discussions. They probably have as little info as we do, so one cannot blame them for not fighting wars they are not armed for.

martinchaen

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« Reply #112 on: (17:11:44/12-18-13) »
Sichr
Remember that errata is not an issue unique to Catalyst Game Labs; every gaming system out there publishes errata. You want to complain about errata? Try playing Warhammer 40k... Or DnD. Or the first print edition of ANY RPG for the past 30 years. Take a look at The Complete Book Of Elves, then come back and tell me Shadowrun Fifth Edition NEEDS errata.

Or, screw common sense and keep complaining. I'm done with even bothering to read this discussion, that's for sure. Flame on, you crazy diamond.

Sichr

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« Reply #113 on: (17:25:31/12-18-13) »
Following the same logic:

Quote
Most politicians are corrupt. So it is OK, if the one I voted for is corrupt too.

Come on. 12 pages of discussion on the topic and now you are all set up because of my three posts?

And again. I am complaining about lack of feedback. Not about the fact we need erratta...which I understand and accept without any opposition.

And I hope that the first feedback I will see wont be FJ warning me that I shouldnt challnge devs, If that, I`ll take a long rest and fall back to PbP section, where lies the main reason d`etre of this forums from my POV.

Crunch

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« Reply #114 on: (17:59:15/12-18-13) »
You realize that accusing people of Stockholm Syndrome is a personal attack right Sichr?

I like 5th edition because its a good game. 4th was a hideous mess and 4A only cleaned up the (way worse than 5E) errata mess of 4 without fixing the underlying errors. But I'm not going to accuse you of a mental illness because you like what you like. If you like 4 go play it.

 5E on the other hand is smooth, fluid and playable. There are a few places where the ref has to make a judgment call, but overall it's the most playable version of SR yet released.

I'm done with this conversation, largely because I don't like being insulted, but you might think about attacking people for their taste less.

Reaver

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« Reply #115 on: (20:39:49/12-18-13) »
Now what about the other part of my message. That about the lack of regular communication from CGL.

Irrelevant and simply proof that gamers these days are becoming spoiled rotten. Gaming functioned just fine back in the pre-internet days when "errata" wasn't known about and changes weren't seen until a reprint with said changes had already hit the shelves. Claiming that you "need errata to play the game" simply isn't true because of that simple fact.


Kiddies these days!!!


"Back in my day, I had to walk 10 km through waist deep snow up hill.... BOTH WAYS, with 1 boot to get to the gaming store to buy a book... with gold nuggets dug up with my own hands!! And it was a happy day indeed if there just happened to be a reprinted book with errata in it!!!"




Point is kiddies, People are busy, and Catalyst is not a multi-million dollar company with a staff of hundreds... or even dozens. Those that are in the know, have other jobs, and other projects to work on so they can continue to put food on the table, they do not have the time (nor the will) to respoind every minute to every question that every single person has.....


The Errata will be released when it is done. And it will be done when it is done.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #116 on: (21:05:33/12-18-13) »
Now what about the other part of my message. That about the lack of regular communication from CGL.

Irrelevant and simply proof that gamers these days are becoming spoiled rotten. Gaming functioned just fine back in the pre-internet days when "errata" wasn't known about and changes weren't seen until a reprint with said changes had already hit the shelves. Claiming that you "need errata to play the game" simply isn't true because of that simple fact.

Should I take it as personal insult?

Think that if you want, or you can take it for what it is, a commentary on "gamer culture" in general these days, be the gamer in question a console-gamer, PC-gamer, card-gamer or tabletop gamer.
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mjack

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« Reply #117 on: (22:08:36/12-18-13) »
Just because we claim fixes and patches for a paid product in a digital world where you do not even need to publish print editions anymore?

In general, the gaming industry is having great benefits from these not-anymore-pre-internet days when they can release an unfinished product as pricey "open beta" and let the players report all the bugs developers missed, had no time fixing or just did not implement until deadline. Terrible thing, means way more work as back then and people even might get a solid product for their money - at least someday.

I am very used to "It is done when it is done." and will patiently wait while fixing and patching products in the gaming industry myself. In the meanwhile we all can have fun with Gear Cards and the new Gun Heaven 3 (which already has its own Errata thread).

Sichr

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« Reply #118 on: (05:02:30/12-19-13) »
You realize that accusing people of Stockholm Syndrome is a personal attack right Sichr?

I like 5th edition because its a good game. 4th was a hideous mess and 4A only cleaned up the (way worse than 5E) errata mess of 4 without fixing the underlying errors. But I'm not going to accuse you of a mental illness because you like what you like. If you like 4 go play it.

 5E on the other hand is smooth, fluid and playable. There are a few places where the ref has to make a judgment call, but overall it's the most playable version of SR yet released.

I'm done with this conversation, largely because I don't like being insulted, but you might think about attacking people for their taste less.

Just fyi... Stockholm syndrome is not mental illness. It is a behavioral patern that develops in people who are being held hostage. They tend to defend kidnappers and show highly positive emotions towards them after some time. Now the funny part...the same beha ioral pattern can be recognized in bahaviour of employees in common capitalistic companies, including highly trained professionals. They are heavily underpaid, spending lots of overtime in the job, giving the best parts of their lives to the company. And most of them tend to defend the company name, advertise it and spread the story of good will to the world.

frankhlane

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« Reply #119 on: (11:13:05/12-22-13) »
If the game's not as awesome as i'd expected it to be (read: Diablo 3) , i have no rights to complain. I got what i paid for: A game

 ::)
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