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SR5 hot-fix errata for Mystic Adepts (what?!?!)

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RHat

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« Reply #30 on: (17:38:47/01-06-14) »
The Mystic Adept under the Knee Jerk Reaction requires Negative Qualities to get their full Power Point allotment.

If the Mystic Adept does not take their full Power Point allotment in character generation, they lose access to any they do not take permanently.

No other character type is put into such a ludicrous position.

Are you saying it would be just fine if the cost remained 5 Karma/PP, but you could continue to buy them after character creation up to your Magic?

No. The 5 Karma is complete overkill (using a Nuke when a BB Gun would do, anyone?). For some tables the 2 may not be enough, but I seriously doubt that that applies to that many tables outside of those of the ones so much in favor of the Knee Jerk Reaction.

Then please stop mentioning the permanency bit as it's not at all related to the issue of whether or not the cost is fair.  And I am still waiting for your to argue your point, rather than simply stating it.  I am not prepared to accept the premise that it is inherent;y wrong for Mystic Adepts to need Negative Qualities for their full baseline; you seem to be taking that as granted when it is not.
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #31 on: (17:44:54/01-06-14) »
The Mystic Adept under the Knee Jerk Reaction requires Negative Qualities to get their full Power Point allotment.

If the Mystic Adept does not take their full Power Point allotment in character generation, they lose access to any they do not take permanently.

No other character type is put into such a ludicrous position.

Are you saying it would be just fine if the cost remained 5 Karma/PP, but you could continue to buy them after character creation up to your Magic?

No. The 5 Karma is complete overkill (using a Nuke when a BB Gun would do, anyone?). For some tables the 2 may not be enough, but I seriously doubt that that applies to that many tables outside of those of the ones so much in favor of the Knee Jerk Reaction.

Then please stop mentioning the permanency bit as it's not at all related to the issue of whether or not the cost is fair.  And I am still waiting for your to argue your point, rather than simply stating it.  I am not prepared to accept the premise that it is inherent;y wrong for Mystic Adepts to need Negative Qualities for their full baseline; you seem to be taking that as granted when it is not.

Name another character type that has such a requirement. Hint: You can't because there isn't one. That no other character type has such a ludicrous requirement makes it inherently wrong for that one to have that requirement.

The Decker and Technomancer can still hack without taking Negatives.
The Magician can still cast/summon/enchant/perform rituals without taking Negatives.
The 'standard' Adept can still do whatever he's specializing in without Negatives.
The Rigger can still pilot, drive and operate drones without Negatives.
The Street Sam can still work fine without Negatives.

The Mystic Adept is the only one who loses anything without taking Negatives.
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RHat

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« Reply #32 on: (17:48:55/01-06-14) »
The Mystic Adept is the only one who loses anything without taking Negatives.

Granting that point for the sake of argument, that does not prove that it is inherently wrong for a character type to be in that situation.  It could be the case, for example, that Mystic Adepts are unique in the limitation because they're unique in the need for it (and thus, were another character type introduced where such a limitation was needed, Mystic Adepts would cease to be unique in this limitation).
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ZeConster

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« Reply #33 on: (17:53:10/01-06-14) »
I don't recall there being any other hybrid concepts, so "no other concepts have this flaw" is a weak argument. Plus a Mystic Adept who doesn't take negative qualities "can still" cast spells, summon spirits, and get 5 PP worth of adept powers (not even counting Qi Foci). Heck, considering how wide your definition of "munchkin" is, any Mystic Adept who wants to start with 6 Power Points would qualify as a munchkin.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #34 on: (18:10:42/01-06-14) »
You think it isn't fine as printed, then you can "house rule it" and the Knee Jerk Reaction can go to being a Missions specific ruling as it should have been in the first place. But no, you have the unmitigated gall to think that because something might be a bit off for your table that the system should be changed to suit you and be damned with anyone who might disagree. On top of that, your side is the one that out-and-out calls people liar for disagreeing.
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RHat

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« Reply #35 on: (18:13:24/01-06-14) »
This isn't remotely table specific.  A systemic problem is not something to be fixed at the table-level.  You fix table problems at the table and systemic problems in the system; a broken rule that was never supposed to be printed in the first place is pretty much as perfect an example of a systemic problem as you can get.

And yes, calling people liars for disagreeing with you is in no way useful.
« Last Edit: (18:15:25/01-06-14) by RHat »
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #36 on: (18:16:09/01-06-14) »
This isn't remotely table specific.

Anything dealing with whether something is supposedly "overpowered" or "underpowered" is table specific. Nothing in any system is actually "overpowered" until how a given table-group operates comes into the mix. "Overpowered" is by very nature subjective.
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ZeConster

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« Reply #37 on: (18:23:37/01-06-14) »
On top of that, your side is the one that out-and-out calls people liar for disagreeing.
I (not my "side") called you a liar, and that's not because you disagree with me (which is a petty remark, by the way), but because you're being a liar. Back before the errata came out, I gave a detailed and factual argument as to why giving MAs free PP if they increased their Magic was unbalancing, as it gave them access to "Mage+" and "Adept+" routes when it came to character advancement (match either a Magician's or an Adept's advancement step by step, while also improving their other side), and you put up a ridiculous resistance: first you argued about organic growth, and then when you realized you were wrong, you gave some ridiculous speech about how nobody was right and nobody was wrong, even acting like I was bullying you when I stated that you were, in fact, wrong. And yet you continue to spout that "there was nothing whatsoever wrong with character advancement pre-errata" nonsense in pretty much every single topic that is made about Mystic Adepts.
So yes, if you're going to be a liar, I will call you one. And it is quite telling about you that you would take me calling you on your nonsense and try and twist it into some ad hominem attack on you, then try and play the victim in order to support your case.

RHat

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« Reply #38 on: (18:44:30/01-06-14) »
This isn't remotely table specific.

Anything dealing with whether something is supposedly "overpowered" or "underpowered" is table specific. Nothing in any system is actually "overpowered" until how a given table-group operates comes into the mix. "Overpowered" is by very nature subjective.

Not prepared to accept that premise.  Are you able to actually prove it?
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FastJack

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  • Kids these days...