NEWS

Next mega to fall

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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #105 on: <05-16-15/1735:40> »
We haven't said that that can't happen; in fact, we've pretty much stated that that's exactly what would have to happen.  But your argument was that 'Aztechnology' doesn't have one of the Seven Golden Tickets because they're not ORO Corporation, when in fact they do, because they ARE ORO Corporation, simply renamed.  JRJ is the official signatory; any corporation which owns JRJ (Fuchi, Novatech, NeoNET) possesses that Golden Ticket.  However, JRJ has been significantly reduced in size, so that it becomes a matter of 'ownership of JRJ', as compared to 'JRJ is the conglomerate in control of everything' the way Aztechnology is.

Yes, Aztechnology has a bunch of different stockholders, but they don't own stock in 'Quasimodo, Inc.', which fully or even partially owns Aztechnology; they have stock in Aztechnology itself, and AZT is the entity possessing subsidiaries.  I don't say your current example is wrong; it's completely right.  But your prior position was ... mistaken.
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Nath

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« Reply #106 on: <05-16-15/1950:17> »
Yes, Aztechnology has a bunch of different stockholders, but they don't own stock in 'Quasimodo, Inc.', which fully or even partially owns Aztechnology; they have stock in Aztechnology itself, and AZT is the entity possessing subsidiaries.
Well, Aztechnology shareholders and board members identity are secret, per Aztlaner laws. For all we known, there totally might be a Quasi Modo Sociedad Anónima who owns 90+% of Aztechnology S.A. and belongs to the individuals otherwise listed on Shadowland and Jackpoint as Aztechnology shareholders. That actually would be an effective way to enforce secrecy. The only thing that's make me say there is no such holding is that the authors who wrote on Aztechnology structure so far displayed no knowledge or no willingness to engage into so overtly complex setting.

Though uncommon, such bizarre shareholding structures exist in real life and even experts casually handwave it because it has little effect outside of takeover scenario like the one we're discussing.

Crimsondude

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« Reply #107 on: <05-16-15/1959:29> »
That's not limited to just Aztechnology. The ownership of the Big Ten is ridiculously simple, which makes sense if the idea is to use each group of owners like a cabal of nobles vying for control over their respective houses than in ever trying to replicate how large corporations actually work.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #108 on: <05-17-15/2330:35> »
Yes and no.  Remember that for the most part - Saeder-Krupp being the single outstanding exception that proves the rule - the quantities of stocks held by the individuals listed is a) listed in percents, and b) generally doesn't make up more than 30-40% in total.  While this means that yeah, there are billions of shares out there owned by nobodies, small groups, etc., remember that you may also be looking at people like Dunkelzahn (who keep quiet about it), behind-the-shareholder entities like Lofwyr before his coup, and other such individuals/stockholding conglomerates/etc.

I do agree, though, that for the most part, it's highly simplified and treated like Crimsondude says.
Pananagutan & End/Line

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Mirikon

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« Reply #109 on: <05-17-15/2357:21> »
Just reading through Bloody Business, and got all kinds of shivers down my spine when I got to the chapter where NeoNET, partially responsible for unleashing Deus again, was considering picking up the ACHE as their new NorthAm HQ. Because NOTHING will go wrong with THAT!
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Nath

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« Reply #110 on: <05-18-15/1635:12> »
Remember that for the most part - Saeder-Krupp being the single outstanding exception that proves the rule - the quantities of stocks held by the individuals listed is a) listed in percents, and b) generally doesn't make up more than 30-40% in total.
Actually, among all the shareholders lists in Corporate Shadowfiles, Corporate Download and Corporate Guide, only one covered less than 40% of the stock: Yamatetsu in Corporate Shadowfiles. It covered 35% ... because the third entry, for Newton Chin, has no number written before the percent sign (based on the percentage he owns according to Corporate Download, that would go up to 40%). And each corporate sourcebook pushed consolidation further.

Corporate Shadowfiles
Ares Macrotechnology 56%
Aztechnology 0%
Fuchi Industrial Electronics 97%
Mitsuhama Computer Technologies 44%
Renraku Computer Systems 0%
Saeder-Krupp 0%
Shiawase 44%
Yamatetsu 35%

Corporate Download
Ares Macrotechnology 60%
Aztechnology 0%
Cross Applied Technologies 90%
Mitsuhama Computer Technologies 64%
Novatech 100%
Renraku Computer Systems 0%
Saeder-Krupp 100%
Shiawase 54%
Wuxing 63%
Yamatetsu 70%

Corporate Guide
Ares Macrotechnology 60%
Aztechnology 0%
Evo 67%
Horizon 0%
Mitsuhama Computer Technologies 65%
Neonet 75,5%
Renraku Computer Systems 0%
Saeder-Krupp 100%
Shiawase 74%
Wuxing 0%

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #111 on: <05-19-15/0024:17> »
Hm!  So much for my vaunted memory.  I recalled MCT being displayed as maybe 20% of the total ... but hey, there's still a huge chunk of each one that's out there at this point.
Pananagutan & End/Line

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New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

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Crimsondude

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« Reply #112 on: <05-19-15/0243:25> »
Corporate Guide
Ares Macrotechnology 60%

This number has increased. Gavilan has increased its holdings to 16-17%, and Rhonabwy owns 5-6% through shells and holding companies.

Nath

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« Reply #113 on: <05-19-15/1736:12> »
Corporate Guide
Ares Macrotechnology 60%
This number has increased. Gavilan has increased its holdings to 16-17%, and Rhonabwy owns 5-6% through shells and holding companies.
Which book are those change from?

Mirikon

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« Reply #114 on: <05-19-15/1749:53> »
They're from the secret writer's notes, natch!
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #115 on: <05-20-15/0031:27> »
Pretty sure that was discussed in Storm Front, but I may be wrong.  (There was some shfiting around in Ares during Crash 2.0, what with them going after CATCo like a shark against a stunned narwhal.)
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #116 on: <05-20-15/0415:25> »
Corporate Guide
Ares Macrotechnology 60%
This number has increased. Gavilan has increased its holdings to 16-17%, and Rhonabwy owns 5-6% through shells and holding companies.
Which book are those change from?

Rhonabwy's stake goes back to DotSW, 134 (4-5%; my SR memory isn't keeping up as well these days).

Speaking of which, I commingled Nick Aurelius's 3-5% and Gavlian's 12.2% because it was referenced when he was the sole proxy for Gavilan and therefore controlled up to 17.2% of Ares Macrotechnology shares. Conspiracy Theories, 45. It's not been said who received his shares following his death.
« Last Edit: <05-20-15/0442:04> by Crimsondude »

Dal Thrax

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« Reply #117 on: <06-08-15/2217:54> »
With the looming release of Shadowrun Chronicles I've been thinking about which mega is going to be the Corp that has been promised to fall.

Ares has the the Excalibur PR problems and possibly bug issues.
Horizon  screwed up with the video footage against AZ
NeoNet is based in Boston so that's a possibility.

Those are the three that I believe are the most likely.
Anybody else have any ideas, thoughts, speculation?


S-K. Their bonds are about to blowup and the Dragon is having issues.
Warning: most likely posting from a tablet.

McGuffin

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« Reply #118 on: <06-09-15/0838:55> »
S-K. Their bonds are about to blowup and the Dragon is having issues.

Please elaborate. Why is that going to happen?

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #119 on: <06-09-15/1314:16> »
Going to requote myself since the Lockdown book makes this question somewhat clearer in my opinion. Granted, there are unknown factors we cannot account for, but the book seems pretty clear in it's statement that one of the following is going to take the hit for CFD, and it's not going to be pretty.

Going by Lockdown, it's either NeoNET (most likely), EVO (likely), or Aztechnology (less likely), and the mega that falls will in part be driven by players of Shadowrun Chronicles and by GMs who submit their tabletop run results online.