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[SR5] House Rules

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JucaBala

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« Reply #405 on: (21:11:15/05-01-18) »
Well, I don't know if this is the right place, but we're testing some house-rules, and, while we just tried it for a single session, it seemed good enough, so I'm putting it here for you guys to review and point the obvious inconsistences, errors or game-breaking consequences that I'm just don't saw.
We're long time shadowrun players, and, while we had our share of problems and grudges with the system (we're migrated to Gurps for some time, in a very free-form conversion), the game just don't feel like shadowrun without the proprietary system, so back we went, but one thing jumped to our perception as we began to try 5th edition - there is almost no reason to not grab the heaviest, largest gun and armor that you can lay your hands on, and, while it can be seen as "realistically", it makes everyone just use pistols and rifles, ignoring submachine-guns, machine pistols, machine guns and shotguns, so we though about giving a reason to use those "forgotten" guns.
The first thing that we've done was consolidate the Range Table, instead of having one range value for each category of guns, we have only one, which is used for all of them:
Range    Close (0-10m) Short (11-50) Medium (51-150) Long (151-350) Extreme (350+)
Penalty         0                   -1                        -3                   -6                    -10
As you can see, we also added another range band...
Now, each weapon has a Optimal Range, in which the threshold is 0, for each range band higher (or lower!) than the optimal that you are shooting, your threshold rises by 1, so, if you're firing with a heavy pistol (Optimal Range Close) fires at a target 90m distant (medium range), the attacks is made with a -3 penalty to the dice pool AND the threshold is 2, meaning that the first two successes are "wasted". In the same vein, shooting at someone at short (15m) range with an assault rifle (Optimal Range of Medium) is going to rise the threshold to 1.

We expect it to give submachine-guns a reason to be used (as a good all-around short range weapon). What do you think?

Thanks, and sorry if it is in the wrong topic.

Beta

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« Reply #406 on: (21:32:17/05-01-18) »
Interesting!  I hope you'll post an update on how you are liking it after a couple more runs, and if you have tweaked it at all.
Jawsey  --
speechthought

Iron Serpent Prince

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« Reply #407 on: (18:32:39/07-26-18) »
Noise House Rule

Iíve bitched about it a few times here, so here is my personal ďfix.Ē  Unfortunately, there are a couple of systems that interact with Noise that could use some tweaking as well, so this will get a bit involved.


1)  If a Device canít get Wireless bonuses for any reason, they canít be a part of a PAN.
   This seems kind of common sense-y to me, but I do not think it is called out in RAW.  So here it is.

2)  Device Rating.
   I would love to go through every device to come up with a different / more appropriate DRÖ  However, the easiest way to deal with it is to deal with the two largest infringers on the overall DR system.
   Credsticks.  These are too high at a DR of 5, although they are always Wireless Off so it is okay to leave them as is.  Changing them wonít do anything appreciable.
   Commlinks.  These break the DR ceiling, and not in a good way.  The simplest thing to do is to divide the comms DR in half, rounding up when needed.  Now hold on, donít start typing away just yet.  Hear me out.
      You might be tempted to give the higher cost comms in a particular DR tier some compensation, I recommend an additional point in Firewall, Data Processing, or even both in the top of the line for that DR tier.

3)  A devices DR counts as inherent Noise Reduction for that device.
   I told you to hear me out, and this is where you understand why comm DRs had to be reduced.  With this system, a Fairlight Caliban or Fuchi Cyber-X7 lose functionality in a Noise area of 9 instead of 8.

4)  Noise is calculated for the devices at each point (keeping negative numbers), then added together. You then add any modifier for distance, ignoring any result that is negative, to determine the exact effect of Noise.

5)  It is possible to buy items at a higher device rating.
        Does not apply to items that already have Rating scale.  Each addition DR point doubles the cost and Availability of the item.  This also applies to any add-on or mod that has any Wireless functionality of it's own.
        So, it is possible to have a gun with a DR higher than two now.  It will just be a special item that is difficult to find and costs quite a bit - especially if you have Smartgun on it.

OPTIONAL:  If you want a bit more realism, calculate Noise on a per-hop basis.
   If a character is connected to their comm through their Datajack, they canít get the benefits of Antennae earware since they donít come into play.  Fresnel Fabric as a jacket or cloak doesnít do any good going from the RCC to the drone because the RCC is sitting on the bench next to the Rigger.  Etc..

Cabral

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« Reply #408 on: (23:06:24/10-20-18) »
Noise House Rule

Iíve bitched about it a few times here, so here is my personal ďfix.Ē  Unfortunately, there are a couple of systems that interact with Noise that could use some tweaking as well, so this will get a bit involved.


1)  If a Device canít get Wireless bonuses for any reason, they canít be a part of a PAN.
   This seems kind of common sense-y to me, but I do not think it is called out in RAW.  So here it is.
Except that you can plug a device into a PAN. Wireless bonuses require wireless,  but PANs do not. You can have a completely wired PAN. Plugged in your smartgun instead of connecting wirelessly? It's part of your PAN.
(This is a small part of why wireless bonuses are terrible as written.)

JudgeMonroe

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« Reply #409 on: (13:35:49/02-27-19) »
Noise House Rule

1)  If a Device canít get Wireless bonuses for any reason, they canít be a part of a PAN.
   This seems kind of common sense-y to me, but I do not think it is called out in RAW.  So here it is.

I don't think that's "common sense-y" at all. Anything with a Matrix Condition Monitor should be allowed in a PAN, i.e., anything that could be the target of a Matrix action. For example, AR Glasses don't have a "wireless bonus" but absolutely should be in a PAN, as it can be bricked.

Quote
2)  Device Rating.
   I would love to go through every device to come up with a different / more appropriate DRÖ  However, the easiest way to deal with it is to deal with the two largest infringers on the overall DR system.
   Credsticks.  These are too high at a DR of 5, although they are always Wireless Off so it is okay to leave them as is.  Changing them wonít do anything appreciable.
   Commlinks.  These break the DR ceiling, and not in a good way.  The simplest thing to do is to divide the comms DR in half, rounding up when needed.  Now hold on, donít start typing away just yet.  Hear me out.
      You might be tempted to give the higher cost comms in a particular DR tier some compensation, I recommend an additional point in Firewall, Data Processing, or even both in the top of the line for that DR tier.

I think I see where you're coming from. A starting runner can hit the streets with a Rating 6 commlink but only a Rating 4 Cyberdeck (based on availability). The deck has better attributes but should any commlink be harder to brick than a deck? A sufficient fix is probably to halve the commlink DR for most purposes but use the current DR as the commlink's attribute rating.

PiXeL01

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« Reply #410 on: (17:24:49/02-27-19) »
Indirect Area Spells: the limit on hits dictated by the force of the start from the fourth dice to allow the existence of area spells of a lower force than 3.
If Tom Bradyís a Spike Baby, what does that make Brees and Rodgers?

JucaBala

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« Reply #411 on: (18:23:36/03-09-19) »
Interesting!  I hope you'll post an update on how you are liking it after a couple more runs, and if you have tweaked it at all.
It went actually well, with smgs and shotguns being more used than before. Unfortunatelly, the game ended two or three sessions after that post, so we couldn't really stress test it that well.
After a long hiatus in RPGs in general, it could be that I gonna be playing (as GM, but it IS playing!) a sci fi RPG, and we are intending to use SR5e as the "base system". As me and another friend have some online time to discuss rules and such, and the game probably won't start before July, we are thinking about some other house rules, some borrowed from other games, some to alleviate some warts.
1 - While still using the modified range table that were proposed, telescopic sight increases the optimal range of the weapon by one range band.
2 - We loved counting ammo when we're young, but nowadays it is more trouble than its worth, so we decided that each weapon has one or more "ammo boxes" per maganize. While you're shooting single shots, you don't track ammo, you're supposed to use your ammo efficiently. If you use it in semi-auto mode (double taps, semi auto-bursts, you name it), you roll +1d in the attack, but you spend 1 "ammo box", if you fire a short burst, you mark two boxes, and roll +2d to attack, same for long bursts (three boxes and +3d) and full auto bursts (4 boxes and +4d). In the paper it seems a little fiddly, but its easier to track than bullets on a one on one basis, and, lets be sincere, it is very rare for a Runner to actually empty a gun maganize in the current rules. This is almost the same rule as seem in the "Ghost Ops" RPG, and it works well there. An automatic pistol, like the Predator, would have about 3 ammo boxes, a good assault rifle, between 4 and 6, larger weapons, like HMG, 20-30, and revolvers as little as one ammo box. Also, on a glitch, you spend an ammo boxe, so you can go dry while firing single shot, is only harder.
3 - I guess this is the bigger change, which we began using in the ill fated shadowrun campaign, and, while it was received with suspicion by some players (mostly min-maxers), it was embraced by the group: the maximum amount of dice rolled is 10, period. If your pool is higher than 10, you remove dice from the pool in groups of three until you're left with 8, 9 or 10 dice. You roll these dice, and, IF successfull, you add 1/3 of the removed dice as bonus successes. To exemplify: Camper has 17 dice in Shooting plus Agility, before rolling, he removes 9 dice from the pool, and roll the 8 left. If he scores at least 1 success, even if it is less than the necessary threshold, he adds 3 success to the final roll, from the 9 dice removed. We tested it for only one session, but it seemed to speed things a little, and removed a little of the excessive edge that hyperspecialized characters had in their field of expertise.

Well, I think that that's it. Sorry for my confusing english.

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #412 on: (23:16:39/03-09-19) »
Indirect Area Spells: the limit on hits dictated by the force of the start from the fourth dice to allow the existence of area spells of a lower force than 3.

This feels really weird. Why would this one category alter limits to apply to net hits when nothing else does? It seems perfectly reasonable that a low force spell means you either need to spend reagents to increase the limit or get lucky (edge) in order to get spot-on target.

You can cast a Force 1 indirect area spell without upping the limit, you'll just always have to roll for deviation. Not like the spell fails, because you don't get the 3 hits.

PiXeL01

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« Reply #413 on: (04:38:25/03-10-19) »
Why would that make sense? Lower force means lower power and therefore more control.
But now that I think about it, the limit should actually be force +2 so a force 1 spell would just land though a force 2 allows you to stage the damage a little bit
If Tom Bradyís a Spike Baby, what does that make Brees and Rodgers?

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #414 on: (05:27:12/03-10-19) »
That's not how any spells have ever worked since at least 4th edition. Lower force means less potential, you can't get as many hits on any spells that are cast at an extremely low force.

Force 2 Lightning Bolt? Good luck hitting anything with only 2 hits. Force 1 Powerbolt, most creatures can get one hit to resist that. Force 2 Mob Mood? It isn't all that difficult to resist 2 hits with Logic+Willpower.

The only time low force means measurably more control is the relationship between Force and Skill Rating determining how noticeable the pure act of spellcasting is. Low Force spells are primarily just less noticeable and less draining. Aside from how noticeable a spell is (which I chalk up to the simple idea that lower force spells are less noticeable) I don't remember any fluff describing less power means more control. Overall, the theme is actually closer to the opposite. More Force means more energy being channeled, which gives a greater ability to fine-tune and control that power. All with the drawback of with too much power comes too much backlash (drain).

neomerlin

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« Reply #415 on: (07:51:22/03-29-19) »
Force 2 Lightning Bolt? Good luck hitting anything with only 2 hits. Force 1 Powerbolt, most creatures can get one hit to resist that. Force 2 Mob Mood? It isn't all that difficult to resist 2 hits with Logic+Willpower.

Sorry. I haven't actually read this whole conversation but this takes me back to my favourite first edition combat exploit where a mage could be devestating by spamming Force 2 manabolts and then throwing their whole magic dice pool i to the attack.

Basically, anything with Willpower 3 or less was prettt much guaranteed to die because a starting mage could roll 9 dice, only need a 3 or better for a hit on each die, while their target rolled 3 dice and needed a 5 or better. If the mage got at least 3 net hits, the target was dead. Then they rolled their Drain resistance and had to roll a 2 or better. If their dice pool (easily 6+) got 4 hits, no drain at all. It was that was easy. But not since 1st edition has a low Force spell actually been a more effective way of killing someone than a high force spell.

Ahem. Anyway. I actually came here to share a house rule I have been using since I was flipping through the old Virtual Realities book and came across the fast matrix runs rule for abstracting basic datagrabs in legwork. I think Matrix Search covers most of this but I wanted something for the protected but not crucial info Matrix Search can't find but isn't worth investing a whole matrix run on. This is basically what the rules in Virtual Realities was for. So I made a new Matrix Action of sorts.

Data Grab
MARKs required: None.
Test: Extended Test. Intuition + Hacking [Sleaze] (Varies, 1 hour)
The decker goes in search of particular information across the matrix. They begin by compiling a list of likely locations (in an age of digital information, global interconnectivity, and labyrinthine corporate networks, itís unusual for data not to be shared) and targeting the least secure locations. The decker hacks into low rating Hosts and devices with a mind to keeping a low profile, and never staying in one place too long. Any time Overwatch gets close to convergence, or the decker is marked, they reboot and start over on the next likely location so as not to put anyone on high alert. This is an Extended Test with an interval of one hour. The Threshold for widely spread and commonly accessed or shared information is 6 hits. For information of limited availability or only used by a small group, the Threshold is 12. The most sensitive, secret, and protected data kept exclusively in one or two places or in archives cannot be found this way. Such information is the goal of whole shadowruns, not rapid snatch and grabs.