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do YOU ban judas???

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a very angery werefox

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« on: (10:06:49/08-15-13) »
this one single qualtie . one 10 bp qualitie by far is more dangers then ANY kill team ANY deadly trap or any other plot twist. dos anyone really  allow players to take this. ive talked to alot of gms from 1st or second ed and 4th and mostly all sayed" im not interseted in a player de-railling or trying to kill other ppl for some god damn bp. few will not even wana talk about it.  what do you peopl think "Judas 10 bp" or a sure fire way to loss friends??????

Crunch

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« Reply #1 on: (10:09:18/08-15-13) »
If I were allow it it would have to be pretty central to the character's arc and I'd have to be willing to work it heavily into the main metaplot of the story.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #2 on: (10:10:04/08-15-13) »
I have never seen a player actually interested in taking this, and unless it's a short limited campaign I doubt it'd play nice since the second it gets out, you're in essence out of the game. It's definitely something that requires GM approval and a plan from the GM.
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Elektrycerze3

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« Reply #3 on: (10:12:26/08-15-13) »
this one single qualtie . one 10 bp qualitie by far is more dangers then ANY kill team ANY deadly trap or any other plot twist. dos anyone really  allow players to take this. ive talked to alot of gms from 1st or second ed and 4th and mostly all sayed" im not interseted in a player de-railling or trying to kill other ppl for some god damn bp. few will not even wana talk about it.  what do you peopl think "Judas 10 bp" or a sure fire way to loss friends??????

There are whole games centered around backstabbing. VtM and VtR both have their fair share of in-party fighting. You just have to be mature about it. And check if others in your group are cool with that.

Nothing wrong with that Quality in the right hands.
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Mournclaw

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« Reply #4 on: (10:25:56/08-15-13) »
Judas is actually a great GM tool to have on one of the players; it doesn't have to be anything overt like the character going all out guns blazing on the teammates or so, but you can work *covert* with it and add some nice plot twists if you know of it beforehand, like in the more large-scale campaings. Like, when the player with judas does something apart from the others, it takes just a little more time than usual and voilá, the enemies suddenly for some reason know exactly where your team is. Or something like that.

a very angery werefox

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« Reply #5 on: (10:28:49/08-15-13) »
hell im on edge any time  players ask me about it. its counter part deep cover gets the same treatment. pay 5 or 10 bp to be a sleeper agent for anyone.  screams"look at me im more importent then everyone. never seen it uesd but funny that its consider any less of a out of the blue screw move. some things like this might be bit more harmfull then"  haha i was working for lonestar the whole time suckers"  plot twist by a truested npc. becuss a player is makeing this happen not a gm.

Crunch

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« Reply #6 on: (10:31:33/08-15-13) »
I think it's one of those things that's down to table dynamics. I certainly wouldn't ok it for a character who wanted it as a way to screw with the other players or gloat about it. It'd have to be a serious story element I was willing to play with.

But there are a lot of NQs that have that potential, all of the various wanted and enemy Quals can do the same sort of thing.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #7 on: (12:36:17/08-15-13) »
Deep Cover, however, is a Positive Quality and the character has full knowledge and ability to control the 'shift'. As fits a Positive Quality, it can very much be used in the team's favor.
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Kincaid

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« Reply #8 on: (15:01:08/08-15-13) »
With things like amnesia and judas, it comes down to how much I trust the player.  I wouldn't allow those qualities in a one-shot game (unless it was clearly a no-holds-barred type of thing), and I probably would try to steer new players away from them, but I've had good results with both.  Still don't allow borrowed time, though.
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #9 on: (15:06:44/08-15-13) »
With things like amnesia and judas, it comes down to how much I trust the player.  I wouldn't allow those qualities in a one-shot game (unless it was clearly a no-holds-barred type of thing), and I probably would try to steer new players away from them, but I've had good results with both.  Still don't allow borrowed time, though.

Amnesia has nothing to do with the GM trusting the player, but rather the other way around. If he takes Amnesia, the player is putting an enormous amount of trust into that GM, especially if it's the bigger version.
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Medicineman

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« Reply #10 on: (15:12:31/08-15-13) »
Rule # 0 says :
Don't play with Assholes

Players can use alot of Neg or Pos Qualities to become Assholes
The solution  (ImO): don't ban the Quality, ban the Player misusing it !

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Black

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« Reply #11 on: (22:18:41/08-15-13) »
I have a player whose character has Judas.  While the player knows, his character actually doesn't (also his 6/6 contact is a mind manipulating wujen...).  It makes for good adventure/story fodder.

I think Judas and similar qualities are great for plot hooks.  They shouldn't be just used for player vs player conflict (unless stated upfront and only then for very short games...)

Players and GMs should work together for these types of qualities.
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RHat

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« Reply #12 on: (05:26:09/08-16-13) »
I actually had a player putting a character together with full Amnesia, who he was describing as sort of the Jason Bourne sort.  My plan, though sadly the game fell apart due to scheduling issues, was to fill out the remainder of his negative qualities with exactly this.  I figured I'd pass him a note during a session that read something like "Your programming has kicked in, causing you to attempt X", hopefully kicking off a mini-arc where the team tries to figure out what the hell happened and how to fix it, eventually providing the character the chance to buy off the quality.

Of course, this was also a player who I know can take things like this and make them freaking gold.
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #13 on: (12:24:25/08-16-13) »
They shouldn't be just used for player vs player conflict (unless stated upfront and only then for very short games...)

Stated up front to the GM only, and in a private conversation away from any possible eavesdropping by the other players. This way it prevents any use of OCK on the part of the other players.
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Shamie

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« Reply #14 on: (11:07:31/08-19-13) »

There are whole games centered around backstabbing. VtM and VtR both have their fair share of in-party fighting. You just have to be mature about it. And check if others in your group are cool with that.

Nothing wrong with that Quality in the right hands.

Very true, i had a werewolf forsaken game in wich one member of the pack was a belial hound and at the end of the game he exterminate (double agent, for dark gods)  the pack. And they had a blast with it

And i play a Ravenloft game in wich the DM in secret let us know to every player that we were in fact a doppelganger, so each of us believe we were going to double cross the party. The reveal was hilarious.


I only ban judas in case of campaigns, or certain players. For me is a matter of thrust with the player