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Dunkelzahn and Hestaby

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Red Canti

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« Reply #15 on: <08-02-13/2344:07> »
Dragons are more dangerous now lore-wise, though - it took Aztlan's entire army to take out a single great dragon, IIRC, and it may have survived (can't remember what happened precisely).
I wouldn't know much about it. I've only read one fiction of him assaulting an AZT complex or factory and one Blurb from Dunkelzahn's Will. Something about him not understanding him, but still respecting him.

Edit: Sirrurg, that's his name, isn't it?


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« Last Edit: <08-03-13/0015:06> by Red Canti »
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Nath

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« Reply #16 on: <08-03-13/0623:48> »
Dragons are more dangerous now lore-wise, though - it took Aztlan's entire army to take out a single great dragon, IIRC, and it may have survived (can't remember what happened precisely).
The battle with Sirrurg involved three air task force and one air carrier and its battle group, according to Storm Front (the assess the size of those task forces, when nearly half of Task Force Two and Three aircrafts were either destroyed or forced to disengage, it resulted in at least thirty pilots punching out). No ground forces was involved besides three special forces detachment that initially attacked one of Sirrurg's lair as a bait. It maybe took Aztlan entire air force, but not the entire army.

Tzeentch

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« Reply #17 on: <08-03-13/0701:05> »
There was a surface contingent engaged almost as soon as he was grounded, and then local militias got involved.

The major Aztlan damage was to their air force. But if their force was at least as large as it was in 2056 (Aztlan, p. 77 says about 5,000 'zoomies' and estimates 60% tooth ratio) then it may have been fairly minor in the grand scheme (wiped out a good chunk of their most advanced stuff, though). But they did lose a significant percentage of their Path of the Sun priesthood (Storm Front, p. 27) and most of their anti-dragon special task troops are dead. And Sirrurg still escaped.

Mirikon

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« Reply #18 on: <08-03-13/1500:20> »
Dunkelzahn's death was just like pretty much everything in the Sixth World. Nothing is simple. There are always layers behind layers that the common people (even those who are fairly high up or far in) will never see. There are some people who whine about anything to do with Earthdawn or the Enemy. However, pretty much every magic-based adventure or plot point relates back to the Fourth World or earlier in some way. Bugs? They were already present in the 4th world, and the Powers That Be regard them as precursors to the Enemy arriving. The Infected? They existed, in one form or another, during the last cycle, and popped up even before the Awakening, in some cases. Some even slept from one age to the next. Artifacts and lost magics? Goes without saying. Dragons and Immortal Elves? These are only the most flagrant things from the past ages of magic, and so people focus their hate and vitriol there.

Dragons are scary creatures, and Great Dragons more so. An adult dragon can be killed. It isn't easy, but it can happen. A Great Dragon is all but impossible to bring down. But it is possible. However, it takes a massive undertaking, not unlike stopping a hurricane from spinning. Could mortal metahumans accomplish it? Perhaps, given sufficient numbers and resources. But it is not something one should consider lightly.
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Rapier

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« Reply #19 on: <08-06-13/1140:21> »
One of the things that always struck me wrong is why this artefact could not have been created using other means than his suicide. How is that a super knowledgable dragon with pretty much unlimited physical and human resources could not figure out a way to create that artefact or something to that effect another way. Could he have not done a great ghost dance using voluntary subjects to create it? Yes another GGD increases the level of magic but what he did also did and created a rift.

Anyway, im beating a dead horse and ill stop. Tome it still doesnt make sense.

Sorry

Rapier

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #20 on: <08-06-13/1226:52> »
Blood Magic involving the sacrifice of a Greater Dragon? Yeah, sorry, we mere humans are worth squat compared to that. Plus as cyberzombie he's less vulnerable to the Horrors. Did you not notice? ALL Cyberzombie projects have a dragon behind them. Once they kink out the "dies from essence drain" bugs, they got their troops ready.
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GiraffeShaman

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« Reply #21 on: <08-06-13/1746:15> »
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Blood Magic involving the sacrifice of a Greater Dragon? Yeah, sorry, we mere humans are worth squat compared to that. Plus as cyberzombie he's less vulnerable to the Horrors. Did you not notice? ALL Cyberzombie projects have a dragon behind them. Once they kink out the "dies from essence drain" bugs, they got their troops ready.
I would guess there is inherent magic power in the title "President of the UCAS" as well. Especially if you believe it has power. Kind of like sacrificing a king in ASOIF.

CanRay

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« Reply #22 on: <08-06-13/1829:19> »
Especially when you consider that "President of the UCAS" has both the tradition, history, and thus power of both "President of the USA" and "Prime Minister of Canada" behind it as well.
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #23 on: <08-06-13/1836:15> »
That's one way of looking at it ...

Sendaz

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« Reply #24 on: <08-06-13/1836:48> »
Check out Blood Oath by Christopher Farnsworth sometime.

It's where in the late 1860's then President Andrew Johnson binds a Vampire with a smidge of Cajun magic to a  blood oath to protect the President of the United States and the Country.

Adds new meaning to Oaths of Office.
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DeathStrobe

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« Reply #25 on: <08-06-13/2050:53> »
One of the things that always struck me wrong is why this artefact could not have been created using other means than his suicide. How is that a super knowledgable dragon with pretty much unlimited physical and human resources could not figure out a way to create that artefact or something to that effect another way. Could he have not done a great ghost dance using voluntary subjects to create it? Yes another GGD increases the level of magic but what he did also did and created a rift.

Anyway, im beating a dead horse and ill stop. Tome it still doesnt make sense.

Sorry

Rapier

I always figured it'd have been multiple reasons. I always figured Ghostwalker was suppose to play a bigger role. After all he must have been in some kind of astral prison or something and Dunkelzahn must have known that when Halley's Comet appears, it would have made that prison manifest and the rift would allow Ghostwalker to escape. So he also knew that he needed this magical MacGuffin to be empowered, and it'd have been too difficult to get any other Great Dragon to volunteer for it, and needed to spread around a few items of power, and to free his brother, he probably knew the political fallout of having himself appear to be assassinated would act as a catalyst to ease metahuman relationships. So it all just looked like the perfect storm.

GiraffeShaman

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« Reply #26 on: <08-07-13/0310:16> »
Quote
Check out Blood Oath by Christopher Farnsworth sometime.

It's where in the late 1860's then President Andrew Johnson binds a Vampire with a smidge of Cajun magic to a  blood oath to protect the President of the United States and the Country.

Adds new meaning to Oaths of Office.
Until he is slain by Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Slayer.

BlackMyron

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« Reply #27 on: <08-07-13/1832:29> »
For all intents and purposes, it was Aztlan that "killed" Dunkelzahn.  And that revelation hasn't sunk in yet in the general world - and may never happen.

Then again, I'm looking forward to seeing the consequences of Aztlan's 'victory' that were hinted at in Storm Front...

Red Canti

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« Reply #28 on: <08-07-13/1908:58> »
One of the things that always struck me wrong is why this artefact could not have been created using other means than his suicide. How is that a super knowledgable dragon with pretty much unlimited physical and human resources could not figure out a way to create that artefact or something to that effect another way. Could he have not done a great ghost dance using voluntary subjects to create it? Yes another GGD increases the level of magic but what he did also did and created a rift.
Perhaps he lacked the inclination to sacrifice the hundreds of people it would've taken. As I understand it, Dunkelzahn is pretty heavily characterized for looking out for the little guy and really liked Metahumans.

Hell even if he was the kind of Dragon who'd pull that kind of nonsense, maybe there just wasn't any time.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #29 on: <08-07-13/2038:09> »
Remember that blowing himself up was NOT 'plan A'. However, the Azzies found the Nexus before he could finish other plans, so he had to go with the contingency he had prepared earlier for just this situation.
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