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First review for Shadowrun Returns.

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GiraffeShaman

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« Reply #30 on: <07-27-13/1108:12> »
I think I'll get 4 or more playthroughs out of this. Yes, you know the story, but the battles are different beasts with not only a different main character, but different shadowrunners hired. (And you can keep hiring different runners throughout the game)

I played on average first, which helps, since I can now yank the game up to very difficult. Admittedly it did make things too easy. Another way to really challenge yourself is to purposely hire weak runners, or hire less. At some point I'll probaly try to get through solo with a Decker on very difficult.

Irian

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« Reply #31 on: <07-27-13/1313:02> »
I think the game will last for a while - because I doubt I will finish it. Honestly, the fights are not interesting enough to warrant another play-through. If I want good round-based combat with people shooting at each other, I take Jagged Alliance - heck, even XCom's combat was more fun than Shadowrun (even if the later one "borrrowed" some of the combat concepts from there, while taking parts of the Mass Effect character system and adding "karma" to it).

Perhaps the editor will prove to be the game's best part, let's wait what's possible with it (and when people start extending the editor *g*).
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TomDowd

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« Reply #32 on: <07-27-13/2005:10> »
Best part of the anthology "I mean--a burger in bucket. How could I say no?"

Will withhold speaker due to spoilers.... But damn that whole story is magic...., as well as the one wirh our green Mohawk elf :)
Why, thanks! :)

TD

Wilhelm R.

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« Reply #33 on: <07-28-13/1649:14> »
What a lot of people do not seem to be realizing is that "Dead Man's Switch"  is NOT what "Shadowrun Returns" is.   

It is not what the project was about, nor was it what you paid for.   Dead Man's Switch was a demo of what Shadowrun Returns is capable of, and intended to be:  A game engine and toolkit based on the Shadowrun universe.   We aren't even a week into release yet and already there are at least four player-made campaigns in at LEAST the playable-demo stage. 

The true beauty and value of this product has yet to be seen.   For those of you who gripe about lack of content or time spent to complete, I really do not think you did the research here.    I got everything I was looking for so far, and can't wait to see what develops.

And hey, I loved the DMS Campaign,  twists, turns, and a good demonstration of what the system can do right out of the box.

ZeConster

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« Reply #34 on: <07-28-13/1756:25> »
It is not what the project was about, nor was it what you paid for.   Dead Man's Switch was a demo of what Shadowrun Returns is capable of, and intended to be:  A game engine and toolkit based on the Shadowrun universe.   We aren't even a week into release yet and already there are at least four player-made campaigns in at LEAST the playable-demo stage.
Actually, I'm guessing most of those campaigns were started by backers who had access to the editor a few months before the game itself came out.

Irian

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« Reply #35 on: <07-28-13/1836:04> »
And, honestly, to me it looks like the editor is quite... weak. Let's hope I'm missing some serious depth - or that some coders will find ways to expand it. It's just Unity, after all, isn't it?
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Ryo

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« Reply #36 on: <07-28-13/1902:19> »
What a lot of people do not seem to be realizing is that "Dead Man's Switch"  is NOT what "Shadowrun Returns" is.   

It is not what the project was about, nor was it what you paid for.   Dead Man's Switch was a demo of what Shadowrun Returns is capable of, and intended to be:  A game engine and toolkit based on the Shadowrun universe.   We aren't even a week into release yet and already there are at least four player-made campaigns in at LEAST the playable-demo stage. 

The true beauty and value of this product has yet to be seen.   For those of you who gripe about lack of content or time spent to complete, I really do not think you did the research here.    I got everything I was looking for so far, and can't wait to see what develops.

And hey, I loved the DMS Campaign,  twists, turns, and a good demonstration of what the system can do right out of the box.

If I paid for that, then I am even more disappointed. I would gladly pay 20 bucks for a Shadowrun game engine. Something that just simulated all the rules of the Pen and Paper game, even of an older edition, would be amazing. If they made that and packaged it with a basic campaign, then released the full editor, I'd be ecstatic, and would be using the editor to make my own campaigns.

But that's not what this is at all. They dumbed down the mechanics to the point where it is less deep and interesting than many other video games I have bought recently, let alone the level the PnP demands.

The combat mechanics are weak and clunky. They completely stripped out damage tracks and the concept of wounds, leaving only a simplistic HP system. I barely even had to take cover, I was just standing in the middle of the room murdering people half the time. The Matrix mechanics are just the combat mechanics with a different skin, which is equally unimpressive. They didn't include Astral Space at all.

And the possibilities are also extremely limited, which annoyed me. People are not kidding when they say this game is a linear tunnel. This is Shadowrun. At a bare minimum, I was imagining something like Dishonored, where you have to hit the same set points for any given level, but how you get there is up to you. Do you want to go in guns blazing, or would you prefer sneaking in and killing nobody? But that's not what this game is. Every combat is required. Non-lethal options do not exist. You kill everyone you meet, and then step over their corpses as they conveniently disappear. You have exactly one way to go, and no optional routes to take to get there. I have never seen railroading this extreme in an RPG before. This is the kind of linearity I expect from a platformer.

Maybe the modding community will figure out a way to break the rails, but I doubt they can dramatically change the mechanics or add something like Astral Space, so this game is still a lot weaker than it should have been.

Hopefully Shadowrun Online doesn't put on a similarly disappointing show.

Wilhelm R.

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« Reply #37 on: <07-28-13/2021:02> »
There's nothing really that I can say to convince you otherwise, since you're locked on to your way of thinking with no looking back, but really, I suppose you should have looked into what you were getting before putting money on it,  everything you are talking about being disappointed with was right there, easy to read and as plain as day.

I think you're selling the potential short, though.   I, for one, having messed with the editor a far bit, can see how a working astral space could be done...  Would just need someone to make the right looking tileset.

If you want pen and paper Shadowrun, go play pen and paper Shadowrun, OR wait for a game to promise you Shadowrun PnP Rules in a video game form.   This game, from day one, was toted as a spiritual successor to the old-school Super Nintendo and Genesis games.   And it delivered that, and more.

Ryo

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« Reply #38 on: <07-28-13/2025:32> »
If you want pen and paper Shadowrun, go play pen and paper Shadowrun, OR wait for a game to promise you Shadowrun PnP Rules in a video game form.   This game, from day one, was toted as a spiritual successor to the old-school Super Nintendo and Genesis games.   And it delivered that, and more.

I strongly disagree. Both of those games had far more options available, lasted a lot longer, and quite frankly, were more fun to play. They're dated now, but I liked how they worked back in the day.

Rythymhack

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« Reply #39 on: <07-28-13/2031:09> »
One of the things I trult appreciate about it is it makes a good example of what the PNP game is about. Mind you this is more a 'setting and feel' comment. It also jives with my personal opinion on what power levels a character should start at (more or less...it is, after all not a direct translation of the PnP). Do I wish it was Skyrim huge? Of course =) . But for a fast fix I like it for what it is.

Wilhelm R.

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« Reply #40 on: <07-28-13/2040:11> »

I strongly disagree. Both of those games had far more options available, lasted a lot longer, and quite frankly, were more fun to play. They're dated now, but I liked how they worked back in the day.

Nostalgia goggles are a hell of a thing.  I remember playing both those games, still do to this day, and love them.  But you're building them up quiiiite a bit...

Man, you had a lot of options for making Armitage JUST the character you wanted, eh?  I remember when I asked my buddy about it, WHOLE other skill set... oh wait, no, he had the exact same spells, equipment, and cyberware, because that's how the SNES game was.  Well,  at least the Genesis version gave you the staggering character option of three classes.

Also, did either game offer a system that would allow for user-created content the likes of which would far dwarf the original campaign?    Already someone is re-creating the SNES Game...  And it feels every bit like the original.

It seems like you're pretty set on not seeing the forest from the trees here,  so I won't be posting again in this topic unless someone has a specific question.

Ryo

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« Reply #41 on: <07-28-13/2101:15> »

I strongly disagree. Both of those games had far more options available, lasted a lot longer, and quite frankly, were more fun to play. They're dated now, but I liked how they worked back in the day.

Nostalgia goggles are a hell of a thing.  I remember playing both those games, still do to this day, and love them.  But you're building them up quiiiite a bit...

Man, you had a lot of options for making Armitage JUST the character you wanted, eh?  I remember when I asked my buddy about it, WHOLE other skill set... oh wait, no, he had the exact same spells, equipment, and cyberware, because that's how the SNES game was.  Well,  at least the Genesis version gave you the staggering character option of three classes.

Also, did either game offer a system that would allow for user-created content the likes of which would far dwarf the original campaign?    Already someone is re-creating the SNES Game...  And it feels every bit like the original.

It seems like you're pretty set on not seeing the forest from the trees here,  so I won't be posting again in this topic unless someone has a specific question.

Did I say anything about character options? I meant plot. Story. Both game relied heavily on exploration. The SNES game was more linear than the Sega one, but it was practically a point and click adventure game nonetheless. There was a lot of wandering around, and a lot to do. That game took me forever when I was younger. I could probably go through it pretty quick now, but Shadowrun Returns doesn't even require thinking. Keep clicking and you'll get to the end, because the entire game is on rails.

Crunch

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« Reply #42 on: <07-28-13/2106:49> »
Well I just finished Dead Man's Switch. Liked it as far as it went. Hopefully the fan content will be good and plentiful.

Wilhelm R.

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« Reply #43 on: <07-28-13/2109:43> »
Final and Starting point being:

Shadowrun Returns ≠ Dead Man's Switch

Lumen

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« Reply #44 on: <07-28-13/2159:04> »
Final and Starting point being:

Shadowrun Returns ≠ Dead Man's Switch

Agreed there are already some short but fun content available.  Given a month or two I see full blown campaigns being developed that will rock my socks.
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