[Michael Chandra]

Xenon's example is, by the way, indeed the way I'd handle grenades as attacker. Oh, I'd take Cover first, so they don't notice you bringing out a grenade.

Also, there is no guarantee every runner team and every hostile team has a hacker. And I cannot figure out if a dicepool modifier from noise actually prevents them being triggered.

Personally I miss the SR4 rule from the FAQ, where it says that if you aim at a location to target a person, they still get a dodge test. I mean I can have 25 dodge dice, be running at 170 km/h, and yet someone can turn on a grenade, fire it unopposed and make it explode without me getting any kind of defense roll, only a soak roll.

And yes, 25 dodge dice and 170 km/h running speed are perfectly legal and possible in chargen. I can even manage that with a single character. It is, however, expensive as heck.

[Psikerlord]

@xenon - yr hacker has to delay his action from phase 1, into phase 2, then declare to go at the same time as the wireless is turned on, and dataspike to break it, or if techno puppeteer to detonate it. alternatively, turn yr jammer on to prevent the detonation.

thats interesting about motion sensor grenades being treated like normal tanged attacks (p.181). thats a big difference for that kind of grenade, at least... although they still scatter i guess, so u might catch yr target anyway.

[Aaron]

Also, there is no guarantee every runner team and every hostile team has a hacker. And I cannot figure out if a dicepool modifier from noise actually prevents them being triggered.

I don't have the rules in front of me, but if the wireless link detonation is a wireless bonus (and I want to say it is), then you can disable that functionality with noise.

[Galrohir]

It's not a wireless bonus, or at least it is never explicitly said to be; However, all grenades and grenade launchers have a wireless bonus ,which lets you detonate the wireless grenade without having DNI. But if you have a DNI, you don't need the wireless bonus.

[Xenon]

the grenade is probably a rating 2 device. if you jam the noise up to noise level 4 around the your team (or around the shooter) then his DNI (with 1 point of noise reduction from the wireless data jack) will not be able to command the grenade to detonate.

the only other way of getting noise reduction is by using a RCC and/or by using electronic warfare on the fly as a complex action (also with a RCC).


Riggers with grenade launchers are dangerous

[SoulGambit]

No, seriously. Jammer 4, its 800 NuYen. Carry one, bam. You're immune to Grenades. Spring for a Directional Jammer 6 too while your at it, and strap it to your shield or armor next to your Flash-Pack. Then you turn off their smartlinks and communications too.

[FastJack]

In response to the OP:

Throw the elf on it.

[Aaron]

It's not a wireless bonus, or at least it is never explicitly said to be; However, all grenades and grenade launchers have a wireless bonus ,which lets you detonate the wireless grenade without having DNI. But if you have a DNI, you don't need the wireless bonus.

A direct neural link to a grenade you just threw? The DNI rules say that the DNI lets you perceive things and send signals. It seems to imply a link into the brain, not to a device.

[Xenon]

I am looking at free actions to find one that i can use to wireless detonate a grenade as a free action.

IMO this one come pretty close:

Change Linked Device Mode p.163
A character may use a Free Action to activate, deactivate, or switch the mode on any device that he is linked to by a direct neural interface through either a wired or wireless link. This includes activating cyberware, changing a smartgun’s firing mode, changing a smartlinked shotgun’s choke, deactivating thermographic vision, switching a commlink to hidden mode, turning a device’s wireless functionality off, and so on. Note that it takes longer to interact with some devices, as noted in individual gear descriptions.

Also, grenade launchers have this wireless bonus (further implying that the way you normally detonate wireless grenades is with DNI):

ArmTech MGL-12 p.431 and Grenades p.435
Wireless: You can use the wireless link trigger for your grenades, even if you don’t have DNI (Direct Neural Interface sidebar, p. 222).

when throwing a grenade I would imagine that you pull a "pin" from the grenade and this pin come come with a wireless transmitter and a button... and then you press that button (or simply send a mental command through your wireless data jack) as a free action to detonate the grenade.... this is, however, just my imagination running wild trying to find a logic explanation for wireless bonuses that don't involve resonance and technomancer powers

As I understand it; DNI is used for receiving information from your devices and project it directly to your brain but also to send information to your devices - for example ejecting a the clip of your firearm, turning wireless OFF in a device.... or to wireless detonate a grenade with a wireless trigger. Most actions seem to be handled with the Change Linked Device Mode Free Action.

Change Device Mode Simple Action seem to be used when you control devices through an Augmented Reality ARO or with a manual (physical) switch -or user interface control- located directly on the device.


edit:
...and the Wireless Link detonation trigger have this rule text:

Wireless Link p.181
Wireless Link: This is the safest way to throw a grenade in some aspects, but it also comes with some risk and effort. The thrower (or anyone else who has a mark on the grenade) can detonate it by a wireless link. This requires the attacker to have a direct neural interface to the linked device and use the Change Wireless Device Mode Free Action. This method also reduces scatter. Without a DNI the attacker must use the Change Linked Device Mode Simple Action in their next or any of their subsequent Action Phases to detonate the grenade and scatter is not reduced.

[Aaron]

I'll defer to the errata and the FAQ.

[Shinobi Killfist]

No, seriously. Jammer 4, its 800 NuYen. Carry one, bam. You're immune to Grenades. Spring for a Directional Jammer 6 too while your at it, and strap it to your shield or armor next to your Flash-Pack. Then you turn off their smartlinks and communications too.

You like the subtle approach I see.  😄

[Crunch]

If we're talking about an environment where grenades are likely, then subtle went out the window some time ago.

[Shinobi Killfist]

In previous editions I've been able to use grenades as an opening ambush or as a trap. I'm having a hard time figuring out when I can use them now.

[Michael Chandra]

Try using a non-wireless grenade.

[Xenon]

No, seriously. Jammer 4, its 800 NuYen. Carry one, bam. You're immune to Grenades. Spring for a Directional Jammer 6 too while your at it, and strap it to your shield or armor next to your Flash-Pack. Then you turn off their smartlinks and communications too.

You like the subtle approach I see.  😄

Provide ECCM / EPM  is one of the biggest reason why you normally have a rigger in the team. 
...another will be (after the errata is out) to throw wireless grenades that can not be jammed or avoided.

In previous editions I've been able to use grenades as an opening ambush or as a trap. I'm having a hard time figuring out when I can use them now.

You can still use grenades to set up tripwire booby-traps.
It is an Extended Demolitions + Logic [Mental] (8, 1 Complex Action) Test (p.435)


If you have the element of surprise then a sniper rifle will hurt plenty as your target does not get to defend against the hit if he is unaware or surprised by it... but it is probably still more efficient to just get a grenade launcher and detonate 3 mini-grenades at head height with an airburst link and a semi-automatic burst. Surprised or not, your targets never get to defend against that anyway.