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[SR5] Cyberlimbs: Unarmed DV still low

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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #45 on: (06:41:57/07-30-13) »
I myself consider buying arms on the growth a nice thing, but yes that rule needs more clarification.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Ravennus

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« Reply #46 on: (18:26:02/07-31-13) »
A fist of flesh does the same damage as a fist of steel. Except it doesn't, the cyber limb does physical damage, not stun. Also knucks cause more damage because physics. Smaller contact points. Higher force on point of impact. Buy knucks, put them on cyber limb. Better yet, build them in for 15 bucks or something. It would not take capacity to add knuckle studs.

A fist of flesh can actually do Str+3 DV Physical (if that flesh is modified with Bone Density Bioware)
Knucks cause less damage than both cyberware and bioware bone augmentations.  So much for physics and your smaller contact points. ;)

I still think it's strange that a pair of brass knuckles do more physical damage than a metal cyberlimb, and yet less than a modified bone structure.  But to each their own.
It's easy enough to houserule.  I've done it in the past but I prefer not to use house rules as much as possible. *shrug*

EternalZiggurat

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« Reply #47 on: (14:48:23/08-06-13) »
A fist of flesh does the same damage as a fist of steel. Except it doesn't, the cyber limb does physical damage, not stun. Also knucks cause more damage because physics. Smaller contact points. Higher force on point of impact. Buy knucks, put them on cyber limb. Better yet, build them in for 15 bucks or something. It would not take capacity to add knuckle studs.

A fist of flesh can actually do Str+3 DV Physical (if that flesh is modified with Bone Density Bioware)
Knucks cause less damage than both cyberware and bioware bone augmentations.  So much for physics and your smaller contact points. ;)

I still think it's strange that a pair of brass knuckles do more physical damage than a metal cyberlimb, and yet less than a modified bone structure.  But to each their own.
It's easy enough to houserule.  I've done it in the past but I prefer not to use house rules as much as possible. *shrug*
I said they do more damage because of physics. A fist augmented with fantasy bone modifications that would have no real life effects will obviously do more damage that something based on physics in a game.  Furthermore, an augmented fist isn't exactly a fist of flesh. My intent invalidates your arguement. You compared something entirely seperate than I did. Try to keep it apples to apples when you attempt to refute a statement.

Ravennus

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« Reply #48 on: (00:26:21/08-07-13) »
A fist of flesh does the same damage as a fist of steel. Except it doesn't, the cyber limb does physical damage, not stun. Also knucks cause more damage because physics. Smaller contact points. Higher force on point of impact. Buy knucks, put them on cyber limb. Better yet, build them in for 15 bucks or something. It would not take capacity to add knuckle studs.

A fist of flesh can actually do Str+3 DV Physical (if that flesh is modified with Bone Density Bioware)
Knucks cause less damage than both cyberware and bioware bone augmentations.  So much for physics and your smaller contact points. ;)

I still think it's strange that a pair of brass knuckles do more physical damage than a metal cyberlimb, and yet less than a modified bone structure.  But to each their own.
It's easy enough to houserule.  I've done it in the past but I prefer not to use house rules as much as possible. *shrug*
I said they do more damage because of physics. A fist augmented with fantasy bone modifications that would have no real life effects will obviously do more damage that something based on physics in a game.  Furthermore, an augmented fist isn't exactly a fist of flesh. My intent invalidates your arguement. You compared something entirely seperate than I did. Try to keep it apples to apples when you attempt to refute a statement.

You're cute.  What was your "intent"?

You say Brass Knuckles should do more damage than a cyberlimb "because of physics".
I point to augmentations in the game that simply strengthen your bones (even still keeping them "fleshy") and allow you to do a lot more damage than those same Brass Knuckles according to the actual game mechanics..
Where is your real world physics now?  How does that translate to the game of Shadowrun?  You know, the fantasy sci-fi cyberpunk roleplaying game we are talking about, and not real life.

Oh wait, you just essentially told me that "fantasy bone augmentations" do more damage, obviously.  Yeah, ok.
So you quote physics to me, then handwave those same physics away right after.

If you are going to get all smart ass on me at least have the decency to be consistent.
Don't go "physics, natch!".... then change to "fantasy, nyaaa!"
Especially don't propose both arguments in the same post.  My god.

Well, I can play at that game too.  I think a full replacement cyberlimb with futuristic durable metal alloys and myomers would do more damage with a punch than plastic laced bones or brass knuckles.
Because Physics. And Fantasy. :P

Unless you have something to say that's actually constructive, see ya elsewhere in the grid chummer.

Reaver

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« Reply #49 on: (15:46:59/08-10-13) »
(havn't read all the other posts so I may cover the same ground, if I do, sorry)

The big issue is that we don't fully know how a cyber limb is made, how it's internal components are assembled, or where the load bearing stress factors are.

For example: is the outer shell of the cyberarm (reguardless of 'skin') the load stress factor? Or is there an internal component similar to natural bones that bares the stress? (this is important!)

If it is the outside shells that is the load stress, then the internal parts of the cyber limb is all wires, servos, motors, pumps and hydrolics. When you go to punch someone with this cyberarm, part of the kenetic force of the punch is directed into a small area of the shell (and possibly denting it... Like a ball thrown at the side panel of your car) the rest is transferred to the internal workings of the arm and absorbed. (look at your hand, make a fist... Where your knuckles are, would be small moving servos... And they COULD be broken by the impact;) another issue is that it is possible that the arm won't allow you to hit 'as hard' as it is capable to stop damage to the arm.

If there is an internal stress load for the arm, then chances are the outer shell (regardless of 'skin') is there for safety and cosmetic purposes and thus made up of kinetic absorbing materials to prevent denting and other unsightly damage through everyday contact. IF this is the case, then that outer shell is working directly against your punch by absorbing some of the impact into itself by design!

Lastly, make a fist again and look at it. A good thrown punch will hit with the knuckles of the index and middle finger first as these are the only 2 fingers/knuckles with ridged structure (your last 2 fingers/bottom part of hand have many small bones and cartaledge... Good shock absorption to a point) next look at the skin over your first two knuckles... It's not very thick is it? (unless you are obese). This means there is very little padding in the way of the bones so there is little abdorbtion by your skin from your punch...
Now add in your bone density or lacing, making those bones supper dense (and limiting the bones natural shock abdorbtion) or armoring them. Both will allow you to exert way more force than an unaugmented (and possibly a cyber limb) would be able to do and not suffer injury.

Sadly however, until we understand how the limb is made, we can't really answer your question, and have to trust that the Devs took the cyber limb construction into account when they determined the damage code.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

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