[Warmachinez]

So...is the most expensive Cyberdeck an Excalibur again? At 1 Million Nuyen?

Wow! That brought me back to the old days.

[Mara]

So...is the most expensive Cyberdeck an Excalibur again? At 1 Million Nuyen?

Wow! That brought me back to the old days.

Its why I asked. Nostalgia features in a lot RL, so..I want to know if they went that way again..

[Reiper]

Yes, but decks are really expensive. When you buy a deck, you may as well just be a hacker at that point.

The cheapest - CHEAPEST - cyberdeck is 49500 ¥, and its highest attribute is only 4.

Have they released the info on how they are handling TMs

I do wonder how t'mancers are compared to deckers,  without the need to spend gobs of money on a deck do they also need to mark,mark, mark stuff or do they follow a different philosophy?

Just going through the freebeet pdfs, it looks like the chargen rules kinda limit a TM on chargen.

You have to be priority A, B, or C for a TM

A has res 6, 2 rating 5 res skills, 5 complex forms
B has Res 4, 2 rating 4 res skills, 2 complex forms
C has res 3, 1 complex form

So in the end, you're probably going to have them starting off on par because the technos will probably start off with resources in C or below, while I'm betting most deckers will be priority A or B on the resources.

[Shinobi Killfist]

To everyone who worked on the SR5 rules, I just want to say, you've finally nailed hacking. Previously the hacker has always been there because you needed a hacker, but now, I think people are actually going to want to play a decker. Thank you.

Hacking is now integrated into the rest of the game, it involves some actual critical thought and strategy, and you don't feel like a stooge for choosing to play a decker, even when the shooting starts. And it now pays off to make a complex hacker character, instead of the typical SR4 "Whatever computer action I'm doing, my dice pool is 9" builds.

While I am really happy the matrix is improved, I don't think many people saw Deckers the way you are describing them.  They are bad ass in 4e, they add probably more to the team than any other archetype.  It was way too slow and so getting rid of most the extended tests is great.  But in the different gorups I''ve played in there never was a shortage of people wanting to play deckers. 

[Reiper]

To everyone who worked on the SR5 rules, I just want to say, you've finally nailed hacking. Previously the hacker has always been there because you needed a hacker, but now, I think people are actually going to want to play a decker. Thank you.

Hacking is now integrated into the rest of the game, it involves some actual critical thought and strategy, and you don't feel like a stooge for choosing to play a decker, even when the shooting starts. And it now pays off to make a complex hacker character, instead of the typical SR4 "Whatever computer action I'm doing, my dice pool is 9" builds.

While I am really happy the matrix is improved, I don't think many people saw Deckers the way you are describing them.  They are bad ass in 4e, they add probably more to the team than any other archetype.  It was way too slow and so getting rid of most the extended tests is great.  But in the different gorups I''ve played in there never was a shortage of people wanting to play deckers.

In my group our hacker is by far the most important person in a lot of situations. We literally had a few runs where we made a plan, and he did all of the work minus some really small things.

But as a player or GM, the extended tests were rediculous. Itsbasically "lets pull out my massive wad of dice and see how many hours it takes me to find this, that and the other" and if they have time then there isn't a time when they aren't getting the information (which is resulting in me having some things now where they can't find the info without hacking specific targets).

But the biggest problem I thought of the entire thing was that it was essentially playing two different games, and if the meat side or cyberside was doing something, everyone else was twiddling their thumbs.

[Shinobi Killfist]

To everyone who worked on the SR5 rules, I just want to say, you've finally nailed hacking. Previously the hacker has always been there because you needed a hacker, but now, I think people are actually going to want to play a decker. Thank you.

Hacking is now integrated into the rest of the game, it involves some actual critical thought and strategy, and you don't feel like a stooge for choosing to play a decker, even when the shooting starts. And it now pays off to make a complex hacker character, instead of the typical SR4 "Whatever computer action I'm doing, my dice pool is 9" builds.

While I am really happy the matrix is improved, I don't think many people saw Deckers the way you are describing them.  They are bad ass in 4e, they add probably more to the team than any other archetype.  It was way too slow and so getting rid of most the extended tests is great.  But in the different gorups I''ve played in there never was a shortage of people wanting to play deckers.

In my group our hacker is by far the most important person in a lot of situations. We literally had a few runs where we made a plan, and he did all of the work minus some really small things.

But as a player or GM, the extended tests were rediculous. Itsbasically "lets pull out my massive wad of dice and see how many hours it takes me to find this, that and the other" and if they have time then there isn't a time when they aren't getting the information (which is resulting in me having some things now where they can't find the info without hacking specific targets).

But the biggest problem I thought of the entire thing was that it was essentially playing two different games, and if the meat side or cyberside was doing something, everyone else was twiddling their thumbs.

That sums up my experience as well.  It was way too slow and it was too seperated.  While the decker would have fun decking, that time which with those extended tests seemed to take forever was in its own seperate game time. Its a group game so it failed in that regard so I am happy with the reported changes. Still no one felt like a stooge playing the decker because he was awesome. 

And yeah we have had multiple runs solved with a decent plan and the decker doing almost all the work.  For example we recently did a run from Ghost Cartels(yeahs its old but we never got around to it) the mission was to raid this doc wagon facility and steal a body and all the autopsy evidence. The decker forged release docs to lone star(one of the pepple fighting to get the body) with a court order, updated the seattle court system to reflect that, stole a lone star meat wagon and sat in the passanger seat while the players drove up and accepted delivery of the body and all the evidence, he then hacked the building and wiped the back up files. Litterally the rest of the party just drove to the building and picked up the body after flashing some papers and a smile. I am sure I could come up with something to go wrong, but it was a solid plan and I'm not going to shoot it down just to add conflict or because the player didn't think of some basic hacking thing his decker would have known ot whatever. 

[Bull]

The High End deck is indeed the Excalibur, and while it's not 1,000,000¥, it's close.  Over 800K¥

[Wildcard]

If you let your hacker hit that many major systems with no ill consequences, it's not the game that made it that easy, it's you. It's your job to instill a sense of reality and consequence. It's your job to make the government and corporations something to fear, not just mindless and weak corporations.

Damnit man.

[Sipowitz]

Yes, but decks are really expensive. When you buy a deck, you may as well just be a hacker at that point.

The cheapest - CHEAPEST - cyberdeck is 49500 ¥, and its highest attribute is only 4.

Have they released the info on how they are handling TMs

I do wonder how t'mancers are compared to deckers,  without the need to spend gobs of money on a deck do they also need to mark,mark, mark stuff or do they follow a different philosophy?

Just going through the freebeet pdfs, it looks like the chargen rules kinda limit a TM on chargen.

You have to be priority A, B, or C for a TM

A has res 6, 2 rating 5 res skills, 5 complex forms
B has Res 4, 2 rating 4 res skills, 2 complex forms
C has res 3, 1 complex form

So in the end, you're probably going to have them starting off on par because the technos will probably start off with resources in C or below, while I'm betting most deckers will be priority A or B on the resources.

Depends on a number of things about T'mancers.  If they don't use decks what do they use?  stats?  Can you buy complex forms through karma?  Do they use the normal cyber skills or do they have their own skills?  What about sprites?  Do they need to mark like deckers?

It's interesting to see all the information about deckers, but there are two different Matrix users in the game if one is clearly better than the other at the Matrix someone somewhere messed up.

[StarManta]

Depends on a number of things about T'mancers.  If they don't use decks what do they use?  stats?  Can you buy complex forms through karma?  Do they use the normal cyber skills or do they have their own skills?  What about sprites?  Do they need to mark like deckers?

Stats, yes, basically just like SR4. Yes, they buy complex forms through karma, although they're not equivalent to programs anymore, but that's okay because programs aren't like SR4 program anymore, they're more like qualities for your commlink, and CFs are spells for the matrix. They use the same skills. Sprites are largely unchanged from 4th. Yes, they need to mark like deckers.

It's interesting to see all the information about deckers, but there are two different Matrix users in the game if one is clearly better than the other at the Matrix someone somewhere messed up.

I haven't yet tried a TM build in 5th, but it couldn't possibly be more unbalanced than they were in 4th.

[Razhul]

How does VR work? I had 5 IPs in VR with my current hacker. Should I retool him for AR (hack and gun) or is full-on VR hotsim still viable?

[Aaron]

Hot-sim is still available, and still really fast.

[White_Ghost]

After pouring over the book for the better part of a week, I believe the differences as follows:

• The Technomancer's matrix stats are determined by his attributes, and unlike a decker, they cannot reconfigure their attributes.
• Tm's cannot run programs, be a slave or master, be part of a PAN or WAN, or gain a +2 VR bonus when using Resonance actions (because they are not matrix actions). Technomancers take matrix damage as stun damage, and have no Matrix damage track.
• When using Resonance actions, TMs do not accrue OS (overwatch score). Technomancers can use devices like decks or commlinks, but cannot use Resonance Actions while doing so. Tm's gain a +2 to matrix perception checks.
• Complex forms now function like spells, including drain and choosing force (in this case 'Level').

All together, I've drawn the following conclusions, concerning differences between Deckers and TMs:

• Deckers have more versatility (like SR4) because they can not only reconfigure their decks, but also change programs as the situation dictates. They may have as many programs as they can buy.
• Technomancers have more upward growth, but less versatility. Complex forms are powerful, and can hedge around OS, but TMs are limited to only a few CFs to start with, and may only know Res x 2 total.

All together, the difference between TM/Decker/Rigger is new very defined as there are marked difference between how each of them are played, while not making the rules radically different.

[jamesfirecat]

Depends on a number of things about T'mancers.  If they don't use decks what do they use?  stats?  Can you buy complex forms through karma?  Do they use the normal cyber skills or do they have their own skills?  What about sprites?  Do they need to mark like deckers?

Stats, yes, basically just like SR4. Yes, they buy complex forms through karma, although they're not equivalent to programs anymore, but that's okay because programs aren't like SR4 program anymore, they're more like qualities for your commlink, and CFs are spells for the matrix. They use the same skills. Sprites are largely unchanged from 4th. Yes, they need to mark like deckers.

It's interesting to see all the information about deckers, but there are two different Matrix users in the game if one is clearly better than the other at the Matrix someone somewhere messed up.

I haven't yet tried a TM build in 5th, but it couldn't possibly be more unbalanced than they were in 4th.

The problem with TMs as I had Someone who had played a TM in fourth and read the matrix rules for 5th said to me is that since they can not join PANs or WANs, a technomancer can not keep your gun with a wireless smart link from getting bricked or your grenades from being exploded.  Since TMs can not play defense they are now in a symbiotic relationship with hackers rather than the party just needing a hacker or a TM.

[Sipowitz]

After pouring over the book for the better part of a week, I believe the differences as follows:

• The Technomancer's matrix stats are determined by his attributes, and unlike a decker, they cannot reconfigure their attributes.
• Tm's cannot run programs, be a slave or master, be part of a PAN or WAN, or gain a +2 VR bonus when using Resonance actions (because they are not matrix actions). Technomancers take matrix damage as stun damage, and have no Matrix damage track.
• When using Resonance actions, TMs do not accrue OS (overwatch score). Technomancers can use devices like decks or commlinks, but cannot use Resonance Actions while doing so. Tm's gain a +2 to matrix perception checks.
• Complex forms now function like spells, including drain and choosing force (in this case 'Level').

All together, I've drawn the following conclusions, concerning differences between Deckers and TMs:

• Deckers have more versatility (like SR4) because they can not only reconfigure their decks, but also change programs as the situation dictates. They may have as many programs as they can buy.
• Technomancers have more upward growth, but less versatility. Complex forms are powerful, and can hedge around OS, but TMs are limited to only a few CFs to start with, and may only know Res x 2 total.

All together, the difference between TM/Decker/Rigger is new very defined as there are marked difference between how each of them are played, while not making the rules radically different.

What about Sprites?

What stops a T'mancer from using a deck?

How many complex forms are there?  How many can you buy at chagen?

It's one thing to say Deckers have more versatility and Technomancers have more upward growth but what stops a T'mancer from doing both?