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Hacking rules

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Elseabea

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« on: <09-05-10/1048:38> »
As I am trying to figure this before I run a game....

The main rules state that computer actions use (Program + Skill) to resolve. The skill rules do tie the computer skills to a stat (Logic, I believe), on the other hand.

1) Do computer actions use stats as well? Or not?

1a) If not, then why does a hacker need a high Logic? Stats are useless then.

I am trying to figure this out so little help goes a long way.

Ultra Violet

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« Reply #1 on: <09-05-10/1058:51> »
Yes - Programs replace Attributes in the Matrix, a hacker doesn't need high LOG for the hacking actions but he needs it if he wants to programming something like a patch...


All a hacker need is skill and money for his equipment and programs. ;)
The Alternative is to tweak the rules, but this brings other difficulties...

Aaron

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« Reply #2 on: <09-05-10/1106:52> »
1a) If not, then why does a hacker need a high Logic? Stats are useless then.

The hacker is usually expected to do a lot of other technical, non-Matrix actions, like hacking the hardware or programming, which do require Logic. On the other hand, you can have a Matrix specialist who can also keep up with the rest of the team when it comes to meatspace running.

Casazil

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« Reply #3 on: <09-05-10/1600:27> »
Ya know I just had a thought......(OW!)

As Aaron just said have a matrix person who more or less just hacks logic then becomes no big deal.

SO.....

why not take this a step further no one in the group builds a hacker.

Instead have your players split up the different skills of Computer, Data Search, Hardware, Software, Hacking, Electronic Warfare, Cybercombat.

I would say one takes Hacking & Cybercombat.

One takes Computer& Data Search.

One takes Hardware, Software & Electronic Warfare.

If you have more people I guess you could break it down more but I think with this you can do what needs to be done. Upside is you don't need someone playing the full time hacker which might lead to that person being able to do more for the team at times.
"If at first you don't succeed blame someone else"
Joel "Casazil" Rogers
Catalyst Demo Team Shadowrun Special Agent #251
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/CasazilsShadowrun/

FastJack

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« Reply #4 on: <09-05-10/1620:56> »
For some of the rich kids out there, buying the wizzer programs and hardware is all you need to Hack into the system. But if you trust only your nuyen when it comes to your skills, then you get what you pay for. But if you're like me, and only trust that which you built yourself, then all the nuyen in the world won't help you, omae. For that, you need to know how comms are built, how software is written and be able to do for yourself.

Mooncrow

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« Reply #5 on: <09-05-10/1646:24> »
Or if you haven't built it yourself, at least be able to parse through the code of that shiny new rating 7 Exploit program you bought and see what it really does.  "Hrm, writes a backdoor into every system that runs it, you say?"

While you technically "can" build a hacker that doesn't have the proper attributes for the job, you're handing a lot of potential to be messed with to your GM^^

FastJack

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« Reply #6 on: <09-05-10/1648:20> »
"Wow, this new MCT Analyze program is top drek!"
  - last words of this newb decker I knew back in '62.

agustaaquila

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« Reply #7 on: <09-05-10/2327:26> »
Ya know I just had a thought......(OW!)

As Aaron just said have a matrix person who more or less just hacks logic then becomes no big deal.

SO.....

why not take this a step further no one in the group builds a hacker.

Instead have your players split up the different skills of Computer, Data Search, Hardware, Software, Hacking, Electronic Warfare, Cybercombat.

I would say one takes Hacking & Cybercombat.

One takes Computer& Data Search.

One takes Hardware, Software & Electronic Warfare.

If you have more people I guess you could break it down more but I think with this you can do what needs to be done. Upside is you don't need someone playing the full time hacker which might lead to that person being able to do more for the team at times.

Yes, I just broke into the system.  What I can't understand anything, this must be encrypted.  Bob bought that package, I get him to decrypt the node.  Oh wait, the contact said this system was loaded with ICE, so when Bob can understand everything he won't be able to defend himself and he will flatline.

This could happen if you try to spread out the software too much.  Its not a bad idea, but not one I see working out for the long run.  Replicating matrix skills across the team v. with one runner isn't the best idea IMNSHO.

Wayfinder

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« Reply #8 on: <09-06-10/0046:48> »
yes splitting essential job defining skills up amongst the team members sounds like a great idea. hmmm covert ops: one to sneak quietly. one to climb the rope, and one to fire the gun ..........yup works perfectly. As a Gm I recommend this method to all my players. Muahahahahahaha

Casazil

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« Reply #9 on: <09-06-10/0057:38> »
Hey it's a thought an nothing says you need to break it up the way I listed.

Have 2 players play twins who are so tight you'd swear they were attached together one could do the all matrix stuff one for the rest.

Hacking as it is written is just hacking skill and a program no call or need for software, hardware skills and maybe no need for computer or data search skills as well.

That means #1 gets Hacking, Cybercombet, & Electronic Warfare.

#2 gets the rest software, hardware, computer, & data search.
"If at first you don't succeed blame someone else"
Joel "Casazil" Rogers
Catalyst Demo Team Shadowrun Special Agent #251
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/CasazilsShadowrun/

FastJack

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« Reply #10 on: <09-06-10/0201:28> »
Hey it's a thought an nothing says you need to break it up the way I listed.

Have 2 players play twins who are so tight you'd swear they were attached together one could do the all matrix stuff one for the rest.

Hacking as it is written is just hacking skill and a program no call or need for software, hardware skills and maybe no need for computer or data search skills as well.

That means #1 gets Hacking, Cybercombet, & Electronic Warfare.

#2 gets the rest software, hardware, computer, & data search.
Kinda like The Prestige...

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #11 on: <09-06-10/0247:56> »
I'm really liking technomancers for the hacking versatility.  Regular hackers need to get every scrap of hardware and software they can, but the techno can fake it on the fly or whistle up a sprite to do it for him.  They are much better for newbie players who wish to deal with hacking.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Kontact

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« Reply #12 on: <09-06-10/0808:29> »
Or just spend 9 BP for the Restricted gear quality and R6 Unrestricted Mook.

My advice for a new GM looking to understand the hacking rules is *don't*
Focus on developing the setting and the feel of life and death on the streets first.

Later, find out if your players are interested in hacking before you dig too deep into it. 
Find a player who is willing to try and understand everything 'Trix-side and then, after they've tried, ask them if they're still keen on it. 
Then go over the rules together.

A shared understanding is the best point from which a GM can start anything in game.

Elseabea

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« Reply #13 on: <09-06-10/1902:15> »
Not that new of GM and I've run Shadowrun before. Grant you that 2nd Edition.....

More just a wondering thing as, in theory, being smarter (ie, having a higher Logic) should make you a better hacker. But it does nothing for you what so ever in term of the archtype's primary speciality.

I'm thinking I'm going to run the Matrix stuff as (Logic)+(Program)+(Skill) and see what happens. If the player (if there is one) is too powerful I can fix them in a couple of obvious ways:
1) The system is going to alert the first chance it gets.
2) Agents would use (rating + program + agent skill). Not  sure if an agent's skill is the same as it's rating - need to check.
3) Spiders (security hackers) use the same rules. And some of them are better than the players.

Of course there is the option of just making things harder.

Casazil

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« Reply #14 on: <09-06-10/1905:09> »
the alt rules say (I think) Logic + Skill max hits limited to you program rateing.

you can ues that if your wanting them to stay inline with other toons useing skill + attribute.
"If at first you don't succeed blame someone else"
Joel "Casazil" Rogers
Catalyst Demo Team Shadowrun Special Agent #251
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/CasazilsShadowrun/