NEWS

Shadowrun 5 Preview #4

  • 69 Replies
  • 15726 Views

Shinobi Killfist

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2625
« Reply #60 on: <06-12-13/2337:11> »
The Gunslinger Adept has improved attribute agility 4. This means is agi before adept powers was 2. This would leave him with an ability score array of 3,3,3,3,2,2,2,2 which is 12 attribute points. This is BEFORE adjusting for racial bonuses! However, there is no attribute priority that gives less than 12. Seems to me like whoever made this forgot to add the elven racial bonuses...

No attribute boost is a power you activate in 4e, it is not a permanent boost.  He has 12 attribute points with racial mods with his given stats.
Ahh, that makes way more...wait wouldn't that leave him with agi 5?
bod 3=2pts, agi 6=4pts(elf+1), rea 3=2pts, str 2=1pts
will 2=1pts, log 2=1pts, int 3=2pts, cha 3=0pts(elf+2)
2+4+2+1+1+1+2=13. Yeah, he's spending one more point. Ehh, prolly bought one of those attributes with karma.

Also, I'm wondering how he has Edge 5 despite there being no Elf(4) option. He would have had to spend karma on this, but it seems pretty spendy to increase an attribute to 5 with karma. Was he able to spend karma on edge first before using his special attribute points?

I think he went Elf A for 8 points, with magic D, 4 points to magic 4 points to edge.

So elf A, B Skills, C resources, D magic, E attributes.  1 point in attributes from Karma. A 1 from a 2 costs 10 karma in 4e, so it is fairly cheap.

Critias

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2521
  • Company Elf
« Reply #61 on: <06-13-13/0006:41> »
The Gunslinger Adept has improved attribute agility 4. This means is agi before adept powers was 2. This would leave him with an ability score array of 3,3,3,3,2,2,2,2 which is 12 attribute points. This is BEFORE adjusting for racial bonuses! However, there is no attribute priority that gives less than 12. Seems to me like whoever made this forgot to add the elven racial bonuses...

No attribute boost is a power you activate in 4e, it is not a permanent boost.  He has 12 attribute points with racial mods with his given stats.
Ahh, that makes way more...wait wouldn't that leave him with agi 5?
bod 3=2pts, agi 6=4pts(elf+1), rea 3=2pts, str 2=1pts
will 2=1pts, log 2=1pts, int 3=2pts, cha 3=0pts(elf+2)
2+4+2+1+1+1+2=13. Yeah, he's spending one more point. Ehh, prolly bought one of those attributes with karma.

Also, I'm wondering how he has Edge 5 despite there being no Elf(4) option. He would have had to spend karma on this, but it seems pretty spendy to increase an attribute to 5 with karma. Was he able to spend karma on edge first before using his special attribute points?
Remember, the special attributes offered under the racial column can be used to boost Magic/Resonance or Edge. 

Glaive

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 59
« Reply #62 on: <06-13-13/0020:07> »
I think he went Elf A for 8 points, with magic D, 4 points to magic 4 points to edge.

So elf A, B Skills, C resources, D magic, E attributes.  1 point in attributes from Karma. A 1 from a 2 costs 10 karma in 4e, so it is fairly cheap.
And it all comes together. Gotta admit, its pretty cool to see that we can make viable characters on attributes E.
Here's to hoping that the pregen characters in the book have their priority choices listed. That would help me in figuring out what I can and cannot do with the system, as well as more fully understanding what various priority values mean for a finished character.

And now for some ramblings.

This character does bring up a worry I had about limits. Here, we see a character who's urban stealth dice pool will be three times as large as its limit, all because strength seems to count most heavily  in physical limits. Assuming hits work the same in 5e as they do in 4e, this means that a bit under half of this character's urban stealth rolls with be hampered by his physical limit. Not sure I'm okay with characters being too weak to be quiet. If this strangeness only happened with stealth, then I think I could get around that, but I feel as if this logical inconsistency might come up more often than I'd like.

I couldn't help but notice that the commlink just has a single device rating, and there doesn't seem to be a big of a list of matrix actions this time. Also couldn't help but notice that priority A technomancers only get 5 complex forms. Seems to me like the matrix rules are gunna get slimmed down quite a lot. I'm definitely happy about that! I'm really looking forward to seeing that they do with the matrix this time around!

Remember, the special attributes offered under the racial column can be used to boost Magic/Resonance or Edge. 
I was working under the assumption that he was magic priority B. Turns out I was wrong. I must admit I'm not very good a working backwards through this priority system. It seems like priority will be great for generating characters, but its gunna be harder to see what a completed character went through to get there.

Shinobi Killfist

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2625
« Reply #63 on: <06-13-13/0037:06> »
I think he went Elf A for 8 points, with magic D, 4 points to magic 4 points to edge.

So elf A, B Skills, C resources, D magic, E attributes.  1 point in attributes from Karma. A 1 from a 2 costs 10 karma in 4e, so it is fairly cheap.
And it all comes together. Gotta admit, its pretty cool to see that we can make viable characters on attributes E.
Here's to hoping that the pregen characters in the book have their priority choices listed. That would help me in figuring out what I can and cannot do with the system, as well as more fully understanding what various priority values mean for a finished character.

And now for some ramblings.

This character does bring up a worry I had about limits. Here, we see a character who's urban stealth dice pool will be three times as large as its limit, all because strength seems to count most heavily  in physical limits. Assuming hits work the same in 5e as they do in 4e, this means that a bit under half of this character's urban stealth rolls with be hampered by his physical limit. Not sure I'm okay with characters being too weak to be quiet. If this strangeness only happened with stealth, then I think I could get around that, but I feel as if this logical inconsistency might come up more often than I'd like.

I couldn't help but notice that the commlink just has a single device rating, and there doesn't seem to be a big of a list of matrix actions this time. Also couldn't help but notice that priority A technomancers only get 5 complex forms. Seems to me like the matrix rules are gunna get slimmed down quite a lot. I'm definitely happy about that! I'm really looking forward to seeing that they do with the matrix this time around!


Viable maybe, seems kind of borderline to me.  Caveat of yes you can have fun playing him like you can have fun playing any character.  But he has an incredibly narrow focus with his limits and dice pools and his specialty of shooting stuff he seems just okay in.  A 4 limit stops him for going for any task beyond hard even ones his dice pools would indicate he might be able to pull off.  So assuming gymnastics is more than just the dodge skill when trying to do anything acrobatic he will bump into tha tlimit fairly often. Mental tasks? Well limit 3 so what will he be spotting with his perception checks?  Social limit of 4 is fine for him since his highest die pool is 6, but its still not great. 

On another note when dropping 150,000 in nuyen maybe muscle toner would have been a better choice than attribute boost and a platnum doc wagon contract, depending on costs obviously, similarly what about synaptic accelerator. 2.5 PP to 1 essence is a bad trade.  Obviously this is based on 4e info so things like essence cost, nuyen costs may have changed dramatically in either direction. And why $150,000 in nuyen?  His background is street kid good with a gun, yeah people have been throwing him cash but he has got to eat.Yeah this setup got him 5 edge so that is awesome, but 12 in attributes really shows up as a big hit to viability IMO. 

Crunch

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2268
« Reply #64 on: <06-13-13/0040:02> »
all because strength seems to count most heavily  in physical limits.

How do you figure? I was assuming it was simply the average of the physical attributes. 3+6+5+2=16 16/4=4.

Shinobi Killfist

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2625
« Reply #65 on: <06-13-13/0047:16> »
all because strength seems to count most heavily  in physical limits.

How do you figure? I was assuming it was simply the average of the physical attributes. 3+6+5+2=16 16/4=4.

They released the formulas
Physical is (Strx2+reaction+body)/3round up.  Or for him 2x2=4+3bod+5 reaciton=11/3=4.
Mental Logicx2+intuition+will/3
Social Charismax2+willpower+essence/3.


Dragonslayer

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 210
« Reply #66 on: <06-13-13/0217:28> »
My only issue is that I feel that stat of 2 seems a bit deficient, simply due to personal taste of going for average or better in my runners.

MadBear

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 198
« Reply #67 on: <06-13-13/0940:48> »
I don't have a problem with a 2 stat. I will often try to deliberately engineer a 2 for every character, just to represent a weakness, and to make them more interesting. Most recently I did this with with Charisma for my Orc Sam, as my co-players are all new to the game and I thought a nice stereotype would be fun. Somehow he always ends up being the one to do the negotiations, with hilarious results. Dump stats can be fun!
I agree with Glaive. I am really hating limits. I see no reason for them at all. There are already upward limits in place, ie dice pools. Unless you pay Edge, you can't ever roll more hits than your dice pool. Most people won't be tossing 18 or 24 dice for more than one or maybe two skills, so I don't see huge numbers of success being a problem. And those one or two skills where you CAN get six or eight success on an average roll, well, shadowrunnes are extraordinary folk, with military grade implants or magical powers that SHOULD allow for results well beyond what a normal human can achieve. They re not ordinary people and should not be held to ordinary successes.
And yes, you are likely going to see me rant about this regularly, until I have a copy of 5th Ed in my hands, and suddenly fall madly in love with the idea(aint gona happen).
I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope. Which is what I do, and that enables you to laugh at life's realities.
-Dr Suess

Boomstick

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 178
  • Jack of all trades
« Reply #68 on: <06-13-13/1444:32> »
Obviously this is based on 4e info so things like essence cost, nuyen costs may have changed dramatically in either direction. And why $150,000 in nuyen?
Which makes me wonder, whether we will see a price rise for everything that is not exposing to Sybil Virus.
I would think of it being a little vile;)
"A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally."
Oscar Wilde

Great Dragon: "Oh, look, he has a grenade belt. I guess it is time to retire quickly".
The more it changes, the more it is not the same  any more...:P

Boomstick

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 178
  • Jack of all trades
« Reply #69 on: <06-18-13/1658:54> »
I started to read this preview yesterday and think there is a mistake in this paragraph:

"Determine Initiative Scores for all the characters, critters, spirits, sprites, intrusion countermeasures (IC), and anything else involved in the fight (see Initiative, p. 159). The order in which things happen during the Action Phase is determined by Initiative Scores, going from highest first to lowest last. Initiative is fluid and changes both within a Combat Turn and between Combat Turns. Note that wound modifiers affect the Initiative Score
(see Changing Initiative, p. 160) as soon as the wound is inflicted."

I think it should read "during the Initiative Pass" or even better and righter "during the Combat turn"
Otherwise it does not make sense to me, reading what follows.
"A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally."
Oscar Wilde

Great Dragon: "Oh, look, he has a grenade belt. I guess it is time to retire quickly".
The more it changes, the more it is not the same  any more...:P