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Sticky Fingered Player giving me headaches...

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Reaver

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« Reply #150 on: <09-27-13/2230:12> »
Cyber zombies, in case you've forgotten, require a very difficult and rather powerful ritual for their creation. The "jar head" Cyborgs would be rather close, however.

Have you been drinking?

Or get hit in the head recently???

Have I been drinking?!?!?
<looks around, sees glass, sees rye bottle, sees mix>

Apparently I have!

That could be why we seem to be agreeing a lot today :P
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

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Crunch

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« Reply #151 on: <09-27-13/2239:14> »
Cyber zombies, in case you've forgotten, require a very difficult and rather powerful ritual for their creation. The "jar head" Cyborgs would be rather close, however.

I haven't forgotten. I'm just pointing out that the SR version of "posthuman" isn't exactly the transhumanist model.

Understand that I read and enjoy both Cyberpunk and Transhumanist literature, it's just that SR is very definitely not Transhumanist. SR4 was a dystopian cyberpunk world with transhumanist tendencies which was bizarre and didn't serve either genre well.

RHat

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« Reply #152 on: <09-28-13/0034:43> »
In transhumanist settings the "posthuman" is a positive ideal. Humanity is being cast away and replaced by something better. Doesn't sound like a cyber zombie to me. Transhumanist settings and cyberpunk settings share a lot of window dressing, but the underlying philosophy is different.

The transhumanist posthuman is an ascendant being made better through tech.
The cyberpunk transhuman has thrown away his humanity for a lonely crib and diminishing returns.

In other words the issue isn't "other than human", that's a common trait to both genres, it's whether that "other" is an improvement over the original model.

And thus my question to you becomes:  Why can't both happen?  Or, for that matter, why can't it be more nuanced than just being or the other?
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« Reply #153 on: <09-28-13/0200:33> »
In transhumanist settings the "posthuman" is a positive ideal. Humanity is being cast away and replaced by something better. Doesn't sound like a cyber zombie to me. Transhumanist settings and cyberpunk settings share a lot of window dressing, but the underlying philosophy is different.

The transhumanist posthuman is an ascendant being made better through tech.
The cyberpunk transhuman has thrown away his humanity for a lonely crib and diminishing returns.

In other words the issue isn't "other than human", that's a common trait to both genres, it's whether that "other" is an improvement over the original model.

I haven't forgotten. I'm just pointing out that the SR version of "posthuman" isn't exactly the transhumanist model.

In the immortal words of a great man from the 80's,

"I don't think that word means what you think it means."

1. Cyberpunk isn't a philosophy, it's a genre of science fiction.

2. Transhumanism is the improvement of a basic humans' capabilities through technology, technically, almost all cyberpunk literature and games fall into this category.

The edit-Cyberpunk genre is defined in a distopian, noir setting that puts basic human flaws in the spotlight. Things like the seven deadly sins, greed, lust, gluttony, envy, wrath and sloth, and how those qualities are essentially unchanged by the technology around them. Usually the antagonist embodies these negative qualities, while the protagonist only has one or two of them.

3. Post-humanism is becoming something other than human through technology.

If you've read Charles Stross, his 'Vile Offspring' of humanity (Accelerando) are Post-Humans, technically the Cyber-Psychos of the Cyberpunk 2020 game are Post Humans as well. These types of individuals and beings are exceptionally hard to write due to us, as humans, not being able to successfully write something from the perspective of a human/AI mental amalgamation of code processes running on a diamond core server in the non-elliptical plane of the solar system on self-replicating computers. We can imagine that it exists though. Just like irrational numbers and those people who believe crop circles are really done by Led Zeppelin's guitarist whilst he plays 'Stairway to Heaven' on a kazoo.

When you say the Transhuman posthuman you're kind of confusing two separate things.

The definition of a posthuman is this

"According to transhumanist thinkers, a posthuman is a hypothetical future being "whose basic capacities so radically exceed those of present humans as to be no longer unambiguously human by our current standards."linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman#Posthuman_in_posthumanism

Which taken literally, would apply to some of Shadowruns Metahumanity, because genetically they aren't 'human' strictly speaking. However, they are characterized as human in the literature and game books so in the end they don't qualify as Post Human.

The definition of a Transhuman is this

"Transhuman or trans-human is an intermediary form between the human and the hypothetical posthuman"linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhuman

The difference of those two concepts, to me, is the same as the difference between a lightning bug, and lightning.

Crunch

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« Reply #154 on: <09-28-13/0221:09> »
I'm well aware of what the words mean, and I've read much of the canon of transhumanist and cyber punk literature. They're not particularly compatible at the heart of them despite similar trappings.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #155 on: <09-28-13/0230:07> »
It still remains that the setting needs to progress and advance both technologically and socially, eventually moving it away from its roots in dystopia. The speed of setting progression does not need to be very fast, indeed it could seem to be a snail's pace, but it does need to occur rather than the setting remaining static because some corners of the fan base don't like the idea of it changing.
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Mara

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« Reply #156 on: <09-28-13/0320:24> »
It still remains that the setting needs to progress and advance both technologically and socially, eventually moving it away from its roots in dystopia. The speed of setting progression does not need to be very fast, indeed it could seem to be a snail's pace, but it does need to occur rather than the setting remaining static because some corners of the fan base don't like the idea of it changing.

Your right...it should be getting WORSE. The Corps should be growing more powerful. Because, you see, that is how
corporations work RL..they use the power they get to get more power to make more money.

I wonder if in Shadowrun all copyright laws are controlled by Disney's equivalent to keep Mickey Mouse from
the Public Domain?

Mara

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« Reply #157 on: <09-28-13/0327:02> »
Your right...it should be getting WORSE. The Corps should be growing more powerful. Because, you see, that is how
corporations work RL..they use the power they get to get more power to make more money.

No, it should not be getting worse. That may be how things work in Real Life, but that doesn't make for a good game. The opposite direction on the other hand would turn a great game into an excellent game.

That would require the Corps to, you know, not hold all the cards in the big game, and have not stacked the deck in their favour.
When they, not the military, control orbital weaponry, and, if they decided to, could destroy any city they want...things favour and
will always favor the Corps.

GiraffeShaman

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« Reply #158 on: <09-28-13/1124:28> »
Quote
That would require the Corps to, you know, not hold all the cards in the big game, and have not stacked the deck in their favour.
When they, not the military, control orbital weaponry, and, if they decided to, could destroy any city they want...things favour and
will always favor the Corps.

And that's why maintaining the status quo is their chief goal. Also, it's not as simple as the Megacorps just stepping on anyone they wish. If that was true, Amazonia would not exist and Aztechnology would rule unopposed all the way down through South America. Magic is one area they haven't been able to fully control. There's always the potential for new invaders such as the bug spirits and there's certain areas of the earth the corps can't seem to grab. And they also have to worry about competition from themselves, or the next company seeking to displace them from the CC.