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Sybil virus: Clues and wild speculations

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Namikaze

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« Reply #465 on: <03-16-14/1149:23> »
....

Look, Namikaze, not once did I say 'it's PAB technology and PAB technology alone that's doing this!!'  PAB technology, which is the same tech behind psychotropic IC, is how it is being done - just as PAB / psychotropic IC programming was used in the brainwashing and conversion of thousands of citizens of Renraku America, Seattle Arcology Division.  You wouldn't say then that PAB technology was 'where it begins and ends' - would you??

It's blatantly obvious - as stated in the third point of my Step 3, above - that the guiding force behind these invasions, possessions, or however you want to put it are the Elints that were being e-vivisected - while still fully aware, I expect - in the various black laboratories of NeoNET, Renraku, MCT, and other computer-intensive corporations.  (Yes, including Evo. I suspect the Mars experimental station base to have one of these as a major section - and then the wee matrix beasties got out of their bar codes, so to speak.  And no, Longshot, the mana level wouldn't have any effect.  It's the fact that Mars is the ultimate in isolation labs in Shadowrun.)

'Invasive Elint personality'.  I mean, I said it before, and I've just now laid out the logic behind the clearest, cleanest explanation of these events which accounts for all of the facts while requiring no others.  In what way can I more clearly explain this????

Reaver hit it on the head.  Unless you know something that the rest of us don't know, you're still spouting theories like the rest of us.  So I'll ask politely for you to stop condescending to the rest of us that are attempting to also espouse theories.
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Nightmare

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« Reply #466 on: <03-17-14/1021:18> »


Reaver hit it on the head.  Unless you know something that the rest of us don't know, you're still spouting theories like the rest of us.  So I'll ask politely for you to stop condescending to the rest of us that are attempting to also espouse theories.

Well, at least someone said what I was thinking lately.  Thanks, Namikaze.

Sichr

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« Reply #467 on: <03-17-14/1258:43> »
I accept that ELINTs would be unaffected by a no/low mana environment - I put that up in case the Sybil could be down to spirits, in case there's something we've all missed.

The other thing I just thought of is: a Dissonant free sprite gets possession of a PAB unit . . . and is then incredibly bored because there's nothing to apply the PAB unit to - nothing to use it on.

We have been theorizing on the nature of the resonance a few years ago on this forums. If Resonance is connected to Schumans Resonance phenomena, Mars is one of candidates for this phenomena in this Solar system. So it can be used for laboratory experiments of this kind...as resonance doesnt exist outside planets, almost like manasphere.
« Last Edit: <03-17-14/1543:24> by Sichr »

Namikaze

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« Reply #468 on: <03-17-14/1536:18> »
If Resonance is connected to Schumans Resonance phenomena, Mars is one of candidates for this phenomena in this Solar system. So it can be used for laboratory experiments of this kind...as resonance doesnt exist outside planets, almost like manasphere.

Sorry Sichr, but what is Schumans Resonance Phenomena?
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Sichr

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« Reply #469 on: <03-17-14/1539:49> »
If Resonance is connected to Schumans Resonance phenomena, Mars is one of candidates for this phenomena in this Solar system. So it can be used for laboratory experiments of this kind...as resonance doesnt exist outside planets, almost like manasphere.

Sorry Sichr, but what is Schumans Resonance Phenomena?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances

We were talking about the possibility this is the "prerequisite" of Resonance and Deep resonance, same as manasphere is for Magic.
« Last Edit: <03-17-14/1543:10> by Sichr »

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #470 on: <03-18-14/0058:30> »
Reaver hit it on the head.  Unless you know something that the rest of us don't know, you're still spouting theories like the rest of us.  So I'll ask politely for you to stop condescending to the rest of us that are attempting to also espouse theories.
Well, at least someone said what I was thinking lately.  Thanks, Namikaze.

Well, I honestly have no idea what each of you do or do not know about the Shadowrun universe.  I do know that the majority of the writers that I've had contact with have played the game continuously since 1st or 2nd edition (or early 3rd at the latest), have been fans for that long, have bought and devoured and debated and dissected each sourcebook as it's come out.  We can trace the development of AIs from Morgan's apotheosis by the introduction of Dodger and Twist as X Factors in the original non-hardware-anchored Renraku Seattle Arcology expert program in 'Never Deal With A Dragon', to the appearance of otaku and the hints of the Deep Resonance in the Denver boxed set, to the reawakening of Mirage in 'Psychotrope', and on through the events of Morgan's capture and partial e-vivisection, Dodger's rescue of her, Deus' awakening and attempted hacking of Renraku via Michael Bishop (aka Ronin) in 'Technobabel', the Arcology situation, its 'resolution', the events surrounding the otaku purge and the recompilation of Deus just in time for Winternight to hit all three AI during the events of 'System Failure' - as well as the evolution of what I think I'll start calling 'microAI' in the Matrix 2.0 (4e) and 2.1 (5e).

Do I know anything that isn't published??  No.  Do I have a track record of accurate analysis?  Well, yeah, I do.  Do I know a hell of a lot of Shadowrun information, starting out with my copy of the first printing of the first edition?  Yeah, and I can put it together in ways that make people look at me strange when what I tell them is happening really winds up happening.

I'm not theorizing from information I've only gotten from 4th or 5th Edition.  I'm looking at the fact that an AI can pop up from a frickin' toaster these days, instead of running for decades (in the case of Mirage/Psychotrope) or at least years (in the case of Morgan and Deus) on the largest singular masses of computing power that existed up to that point, with the addition of an unpredictable event, the signature 'X factor' that turned a semi-autonomous knowbot into a full-fledged artificial intelligence.  I'm looking at the fact that the alteration of human brain chemistry and structure is possible from activities inside the world of pure electrons, and that it's technically been able to take place since the Crash Virus hit in 2029 - but the techniques of non-lethal programming weren't published about (e.g. 'existed in-game') until Shadowbeat (2053, officially).

Do I know anything you don't know?  You tell me.  However, my theory is that Elints have escaped from the electronic prisons of the remote, isolated facilities (such as Mars, and the one that Fastjack hit) and have acted to use PAB/psychotropic IC technology, code, and/or techniques to rewrite themselves over the original personalities in control of some very skilled, powerful, and influential people in the world.

In other words, it is my theory, supported by all the available evidence, leaving out none and needing to add none, there are rogue Elints (AI, free sprites, and e-Ghosts) taking people over, using PAB techniques supported by nanohives specifically implanted to assist in those possessions.  Do I think certain dragons (Celedyr) and free spirits (Buttercup) were involved in the activities being performed upon these Elints, either pro (Celedyr) or anti (Buttercup)?  Yes.  Do I think they planned this, caused this, thought this would - or even could - happen?  No, in all cases.  This is highly unpredictable, but not unprecedented.

I don't mind other people coming up with wild speculations.  I am - can be, anyhow - greatly entertained by it.  But if you're asking me to not make fun of people saying that free spirits want the essences of their possessed bodies to be lowered (by implanting a nanohive), or that this is part of some dragon's vast complex master plan (when the only dragon to ever directly interface with the Matrix went bugfuck insane, and though some of the victims seem to be working together to an extent, they certainly haven't shown any allegience to an outside individual like a dragon), don't think for a New York minute I don't have the right to poke holes and ridicule each and every theory - because they either require additional information that we don't have, don't provide for all the information provided, or fail as being the least complex explanation.
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Namikaze

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« Reply #471 on: <03-18-14/0120:07> »
Wyrm, the problem that I have isn't with the amount or accuracy of your information.  The problem that I have is that you seem to think that your theory is the only one that makes sense.  Which means this thread should have died on page 2, when you first presented your theory.  We're on page 32 now.  Because people have other theories, crazy ideas, wild speculations, etc.  Hell, look at the title of the thread: "Sybil virus: Clues and wild speculations."

If you're so dead set that your theory makes perfect sense, and the rest of us are wrong, then why not just let us be wrong?  Why do you want to ridicule people's theories?  That's right, you said it:

don't think for a New York minute I don't have the right to poke holes and ridicule each and every theory

All I'm asking is for you to back off with the condescending ridicule, and let us talk about our wild speculations.  They're on-topic, even if they're way off.  There's no proof that any theory is right or wrong, we're just spitballing here.  In some cases, it's nice to have your wealth of information to keep theories on track.  But the fact that you openly want to ridicule these theories just means that you're a bully.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #472 on: <03-18-14/0200:58> »
The problem that I have is that you seem to think that your theory is the only one that makes sense.  Which means this thread should have died on page 2, when you first presented your theory.  We're on page 32 now.  Because people have other theories, crazy ideas, wild speculations, etc.  Hell, look at the title of the thread: "Sybil virus: Clues and wild speculations."

Look, just because I've got about a 98% chance of being right doesn't make the 2% go away - or make people read the rest of the thread, or make any wild speculation any less entertaining.  Most of the aforementioned wild speculations are sourced in simply not having the complete information - so yeah, apparently I do know stuff that the 'wild speculations' don't.  That being beside the point, I'm not preventing people from wildly speculating.


If you're so dead set that your theory makes perfect sense, and the rest of us are wrong, then why not just let us be wrong?  Why do you want to ridicule people's theories?  That's right, you said it:

don't think for a New York minute I don't have the right to poke holes and ridicule each and every theory

All I'm asking is for you to back off with the condescending ridicule, and let us talk about our wild speculations.  They're on-topic, even if they're way off.  There's no proof that any theory is right or wrong, we're just spitballing here.  In some cases, it's nice to have your wealth of information to keep theories on track.  But the fact that you openly want to ridicule these theories just means that you're a bully.

No, I suppose you're right - I shouldn't ridicule people, even though I feel (and all the collected evidence points towards) the theory I've laid out is correct.  Go to.
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martinchaen

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« Reply #473 on: <03-18-14/0855:29> »
<lots of cool stuff I didn't know, so thanks for that!>

Do I know anything you don't know?  You tell me.  However, my theory is that Elints have escaped from the electronic prisons of the remote, isolated facilities (such as Mars, and the one that Fastjack hit) and have acted to use PAB/psychotropic IC technology, code, and/or techniques to rewrite themselves over the original personalities in control of some very skilled, powerful, and influential people in the world.

<less cool stuff, and just a little bit of condescension
All right, you've piqued my curiosity; what material do you (or anyone else for that matter) have that details what has been going down on Mars? Cause I looked hard for that kind of information less than half a year ago, and I couldn't find much at all beyond rumour of an Evo base that subsequently went radiosilent on us, and a CEO that came back from a visit affected somehow.

Care to clue us in, cause I for one would LOVE to know. If there's one thing I've always wanted to explore in a potential campaign, it's a trip to space, and Mars seems like one hell of a ride...

Sendaz

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« Reply #474 on: <03-18-14/1003:50> »
This and more will be coming out in the latest e-novel from John GreyShadows 'Spirits are from Venus, E-Ghosts are from Mars' :P
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Sichr

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« Reply #475 on: <03-18-14/1111:36> »
I dont mind havin all those facts together. One thing you have wrong, IMO. They arent targetting "highly skilled, powerfull people". From wat Ive seen in Stormfront and SS, I think their choices are given by availability of target, which depends on Nanoware and possibly some other requirements. The fact only those rich or trained by rich/augmented with some purpose in their mind, can afford this technology, should not be fool us when we seatch for the root cause.
What is more enigmatic to me, than their origin, which I tend to be on the same sode with Wyrm, is their agenda. Do we witness koordinated invasion? Or do we witness only Actions of agressive individuals, and there is much more of those who simply blend in an live their lives like they never been different.

Reaver

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« Reply #476 on: <03-18-14/1115:25> »
<lots of cool stuff I didn't know, so thanks for that!>

Do I know anything you don't know?  You tell me.  However, my theory is that Elints have escaped from the electronic prisons of the remote, isolated facilities (such as Mars, and the one that Fastjack hit) and have acted to use PAB/psychotropic IC technology, code, and/or techniques to rewrite themselves over the original personalities in control of some very skilled, powerful, and influential people in the world.

<less cool stuff, and just a little bit of condescension
All right, you've piqued my curiosity; what material do you (or anyone else for that matter) have that details what has been going down on Mars? Cause I looked hard for that kind of information less than half a year ago, and I couldn't find much at all beyond rumour of an Evo base that subsequently went radiosilent on us, and a CEO that came back from a visit affected somehow.

Care to clue us in, cause I for one would LOVE to know. If there's one thing I've always wanted to explore in a potential campaign, it's a trip to space, and Mars seems like one hell of a ride...



From what I have been able to source out on the Mars base, the info is sketchy:

We know Evo started on the base some time in 2064-5.
We know it is underground
We know it has a hydroponic system as well as water and air recirculation
We know that approximately 200 people work and live there.
We know it takes 6 months to get there and back.

what we don't know:

We don't know what exactly they are working on there (other then getting the habitat up and running)
We don't know if anything was "found" on Mars.
We don't know the status or situation of the colony. (is it still running, has it been destroyed, has everyone there been infected. If so, by what?)




Also, we don't know for certain that what is happening on the colony is related to Sybil or not. (I for one feel this might be a Red Herring and an entirely other problem that just happened to happen at the same time as Sybil. Kinda like the AI war (the battle between Deus Morgan/Magera, or whatever) and Winternight were separate events that happened at the same time)
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martinchaen

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« Reply #477 on: <03-18-14/1536:36> »
Thanks, Reaver!

I'll go through my notes again, cause I remember a shadooetalk note about the Mars colony going dark, and about some CEO who came back... different... from some form of space trip, and I could swear it was to Mars.

Reaver

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« Reply #478 on: <03-18-14/1540:48> »
Thanks, Reaver!

I'll go through my notes again, cause I remember a shadooetalk note about the Mars colony going dark, and about some CEO who came back... different... from some form of space trip, and I could swear it was to Mars.


I believe that was  in Storm Front.... If I recall correctly, the colony went "dark" for about 3 months. and some CEO did in fact come back "different"... but who knows that actually made him different...
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Longshot23

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« Reply #479 on: <03-19-14/0258:09> »
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but it occurred to me while driving home:

All of the invasive entities so far seem to be more or less complete individuals - if they escaped from 'dissection' facilities I would have thought a lot of them would be bits and pieces in people, and sort of directing their hosts to find others with other parts of a given ELINT (to use Worm's term). Like Deus' post-Arcology network - each person had a portion of the code, and Deus arose again only when the code pieces were reassembled.

In fact, maybe all the ELINTs are, actually, pieces of a greater whole.