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Sybil virus: Clues and wild speculations

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psycho835

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« Reply #435 on: <03-13-14/1848:47> »
Since we are on the topic of using magic to combat Sybil - would it be possible to detect and purge nanoinfectors in your body with magic? Like, say an anchored  "Ram Nanites" spell, aimed at yourself and set to go off on infection.

Sendaz

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« Reply #436 on: <03-13-14/1912:24> »
It would depend.  Is the carrier for this a particular type of nanite that has been spread through a wide range of equipment or it simply an attack of opportunity using a broad range of nanites....

If it is  the former and there was access to some of the nanites to test against, I imagine a spell could be devised to purge it, once overcoming the OR of course.


If it is the latter, this could be a bit trickier. Remember there are hard and soft nanites with the latter being partly organic so trying to sweep the body of all possible variations may be more problematic to screen against.
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psycho835

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« Reply #437 on: <03-13-14/1916:49> »
Well, at least it's possible. :(

Sendaz

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« Reply #438 on: <03-13-14/1918:23> »
oh certainly it's possible :)

Just may need to burn through a few test subjects to get it right. ;)

But we are also potentially dealing with a whole other persona, so that will also have to be given some consideration.

Yes, hijacking bodies is bad, but if one were in the same position what would they do to get back to the physical realm if given the opportunity?
« Last Edit: <03-13-14/1922:32> by Sendaz »
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #439 on: <03-14-14/0024:42> »
I'd call this more of a poison/disease vector - once nanotech is introduced to the body, a physical spell targeted to them isn't going to quite work, because they're inside the body.  It'd be like creating a 'destroy cyanide' spell - works great on cyanide outside, but you need 'cure poison' once it's been introduced.

Note, by the way, that this 'overwriting' technology really isn't anything new for Shadowrun; it's been around since the early 2050's, having been introduced in Shadowbeat, which was, IIRC, for 1e.  This is just the first time it's been pushed in this direction, with the implantation of a nanotech hive 'assisting' in the completion of a long-term overwrite.
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« Reply #440 on: <03-14-14/0059:24> »
I'd call this more of a poison/disease vector - once nanotech is introduced to the body, a physical spell targeted to them isn't going to quite work, because they're inside the body.  It'd be like creating a 'destroy cyanide' spell - works great on cyanide outside, but you need 'cure poison' once it's been introduced.

Note, by the way, that this 'overwriting' technology really isn't anything new for Shadowrun; it's been around since the early 2050's, having been introduced in Shadowbeat, which was, IIRC, for 1e.  This is just the first time it's been pushed in this direction, with the implantation of a nanotech hive 'assisting' in the completion of a long-term overwrite.

Shadowbeat was the first fluff book for 2e.


and in looking at it you are right, there is some mention of it... which is just was quickly swatted down as "matrix boogie-men"...


but, the seed IS there....
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Nightmare

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« Reply #441 on: <03-14-14/1008:37> »
You know, I was re-reading some of the old Shadowrun novels by FASA and something came to mind.  What if Dodger is actually behind the release of the Sybil virus?  Stick with me here, he helped come up with the 5e version of wireless and he was wandering around working for pretty much nothing at a load of corps that were up to who-knows-what.  Add to that, that during that time he was searching for "Morgan" (I know she goes by another name know but still...it's Morgan) or at least pieces of her.  And in the novels, he mentions on occasions that if he knew of a way to make her, as he called it, "meat" then they would have a true relationship/love affair.  Coincidence, paranoia, or something more...I don't know.

Sendaz

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« Reply #442 on: <03-14-14/1027:38> »
While I am always happy to blame an Elf when things go wrong, am not sure we can lay it entirely at his feet.

Although, maybe he was working with someone on this kind of a project and things have slipped free when the site was compromised.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #443 on: <03-14-14/1032:15> »
(... edited down to Dodger Did It!!)
  *facepalm*  Yyyyyeah ... no.  I get everyone ICly wondering the whole 'woo, how did this happen, who's to blame', but c'mon, people - dragons?  Bugs??  Dodger?!?  OOCly, from the fiction it's really rather blatantly obvious how, why, and when things went down.  The only real question is what group within Evo had control over their Mars program - but that can be rather obviously deduced by the results.

Shadowbeat was the first fluff book for 2e.
Thank you.
and in looking at it you are right, there is some mention of it... which is just was quickly swatted down as "matrix boogie-men"...

but, the seed IS there....

.... uhhh ... I think we're looking at two different sections. I'm talking about PAB memory-editing/reprogramming, which was anything but 'matrix boogie-men', as there were full-on rules for it.  What are you talking about??
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Namikaze

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« Reply #444 on: <03-14-14/1034:52> »
Alright Wyrm, for those of us without your extensive, god-like knowledge, can you dumb it down for us?
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

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Reaver

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« Reply #445 on: <03-14-14/1139:50> »
(... edited down to Dodger Did It!!)
  *facepalm*  Yyyyyeah ... no.  I get everyone ICly wondering the whole 'woo, how did this happen, who's to blame', but c'mon, people - dragons?  Bugs??  Dodger?!?  OOCly, from the fiction it's really rather blatantly obvious how, why, and when things went down.  The only real question is what group within Evo had control over their Mars program - but that can be rather obviously deduced by the results.

Shadowbeat was the first fluff book for 2e.
Thank you.
and in looking at it you are right, there is some mention of it... which is just was quickly swatted down as "matrix boogie-men"...

but, the seed IS there....

.... uhhh ... I think we're looking at two different sections. I'm talking about PAB memory-editing/reprogramming, which was anything but 'matrix boogie-men', as there were full-on rules for it.  What are you talking about??


Oh you are talking about the personality overwrite. Without looking it up again, that was not really the same thing. The one way back then took hours of being hooked up to a specialized machine as it overwrote your personality (or submerged it in the case of deep cover agents). The process also alluded to the fact that it could also cause MPD are a host of other issues....





What I am referring to is the old "matrix legends" of people who jacked into the matrix, then came out as entirely a different person! Think invasion of the body snatchers.... you jack in as Sam the Boy, but Jack out Sally the girl..... And it was dismissed by the other posters as Matrix fiction. (was a fluff write up in one of the books)
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #446 on: <03-14-14/2256:00> »
Alright Wyrm, for those of us without your extensive, god-like knowledge, can you dumb it down for us?

Being given 'tude like that, how can I say no?
Pananagutan & End/Line

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Namikaze

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« Reply #447 on: <03-14-14/2328:43> »
Alright Wyrm, for those of us without your extensive, god-like knowledge, can you dumb it down for us?

Being given 'tude like that, how can I say no?

Given that every time you've posted in this thread, you've condescended to us lesser beings, how could I ask any other way?
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #448 on: <03-15-14/0052:34> »
Alright Wyrm, for those of us without your extensive, god-like knowledge, can you dumb it down for us?

Being given 'tude like that, how can I say no?

Given that every time you've posted in this thread, you've condescended to us lesser beings, how could I ask any other way?

My question is, 'how could you ask at all???'  I gave my replies on page one and two of this thread.  Everyone else wants to pull in dragons, free spirits, and gods know what else, and that fits just fine with the name of the thread, but cripes, can you really think for a New York minute that any of that is what's really happening???

If you want it laid out, then step one:

Fact: You can, since 2e (what year was Shadowbeat, ICly? 2051?  2052?), change a person's memories, including adding to them, by use of a PAB machine.  (Maybe also magic, but don't quote me on that.)
Postulate: Peoples' personalities are built from their memories.
Theorized: If you change enough of a person's memories, you can change the individual's personality. 

In support of this are the events of the Arcology shutdown, in which thousands of people had their memories played with, added to, etc., in full 3-D Panoramic TerrorVision, changing their personalities - including but not limited to the Whites/Blues/Greens.  Also altered were those who would become the Network - people who were conditioned to 'plug in' and remain so for extended periods of time so that the code in their head could download and reassemble in the Matrix.

Step 2:

Fact: PABs could engineer personality overlays.  Introduction of a secondary personality based on another, even identical to another, is not only possible, but practiced.
Postulated: They could also cause powerful personality disorders.
Addendum: ... as can other online-only programs, such as psychotropic IC.
Fact: These disorders could be as extensive as multiple personalities, subconscious 'Judas' activities (betraying your comrades without ever remembering you did just that), and similar issues, or as simple as just wanting to "Buy Ares!!"
Fact: Without being addressed, these issues lingered, and though they were not automatically permanent, they could be.
Therefore: Given access, time, and (most importantly) processing power, full personality replacement - which interim steps could easily and explainably include 'blank-out' time where the personality being replaced is neither in charge nor aware of a gap in time - is not only possible, it is well within reach of Shadowrun technology as it stands.

Step 3:

Observed: All individuals who have been afflicted with the 'Sybil virus' (the latter part of which name is grossly incorrect) possess the capacity for direct neural linking, e.g. they possess datajacks.  (Even the mages.)
Postulated: None of the individuals who have been afflicted have experienced a total transformation of their genetics - what muscle memory (or Talent) their body possesses, their body continues to possess.
Observed/Deduced: Many, if not all, of the individuals who are known or suspected of being transformed by this attack have had a) direct neural contact with one, possibly multiple (and very possibly significant numbers of) presumably angry electronic intelligences (Elints) as well as b) EITHER subjected to a significant, extended period of time under which they could have been kept in a minimally-interactive situation (Roger Soaring-Owl is one of these, Anatoly Kirilenko is another) OR implanted (by prior intent (Fastjack), forcibly (Kirilenko) or due to early actions / influence of the secondary, 'replacing' personality (possibly Soaring-Owl)) with a nanohive which logically could be programmed to engage in ongoing PAB activity - said PAB activity's stated aim being to replace the initial host personality with the invasive Elint personality.

You piss off a thousand free spirits who just so happen to have been shown the way - or figured out - how to take over a person.  As with Deus, the tech is there - you just have to have the reason (same reason, in this case - you'd think they'd learn) to reach out, grab it, and use it As Necessary in order to get yourself out.

Dragons?  Dodger?  All the other crazy theories here?  They're fun, they're funny, but I can't for the life of me see how they could possibly be taken seriously, when the answer is bloody idiot-simple, and even done before.  You'll forgive me if I continue to ricidule 'wild speculations' for what they are - wildly speculative, if not far, far, far beyond left field.
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Czujny

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« Reply #449 on: <03-15-14/0103:23> »
Sounds like remixing memories. So why wouldn't a corporation be involved in that. That would benefit the AAA corps in so many ways. So why then is it not plausible to suspect them.