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Sybil virus: Clues and wild speculations

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Malathis

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« Reply #90 on: <06-06-13/1223:17> »
Little do we know the virus is caused by Sparkle Brand toilet paper. To be truly safe we must use Brillo Pads.
Well...  Trolls are safe.  :P
Is that because they use brillo pads already, or they don't use either?

CanRay

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« Reply #91 on: <06-06-13/1254:12> »
Brillo Pads, Built Troll Tough!
Si vis pacem, para bellum

#ThisTaserGoesTo11

Angelone

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« Reply #92 on: <06-06-13/1750:05> »
Now available quilted Brillo pads!
REJOICE! For bad things are about to happen.
la vida no vale nada

GiraffeShaman

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« Reply #93 on: <06-06-13/2341:08> »
Whatever you do, don't squeeze the troll's Charmin.

Mithlas

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« Reply #94 on: <06-07-13/0044:20> »
I'd say that the same thing happened out on Evo's Mars base. Closed network with a virus that no antivirus software would recognize? Everyone's getting it in short order.
What happened on Mars? I can't even recall off-hand how many corps are active there besides Evo.

if the virus allows Awakened capacities, so far as we have known that Emergent and Awakened capacities were mutually exclusive. So it would seem to rule out a Dissonant origin for the virus.
True in general, but the system at play here could be in tandem instead of simultaneous. It could be a dissonant-through-cyberware net-virus that merely sends control through the attached meat, which would then affect a degree of whatever was part of that person (like being Awakened).

part of your personnality is genetic,
and part of your behavior related to the way your brain structures are organized, which is at first decided by genetics as well as informations acquired by environmental stimuli)
As this is part of my degree, I can tell you that genetics do not make the personality - although some people explain it like this, it's a grossly inaccurate oversimplification. More accurately, it forms some very wide borders on what our personality can develop, as well as occasionally facilitating certain personality development.

Still, this seems to have started with EVO and NeoNET, so that'd be a stretch.
Unless it was a project (started by MCT?) intended to screw up EVO, and it plowed through its expected parameters and started infecting more people than the original targets (who may not have been heard from yet).

Angelone

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« Reply #95 on: <06-07-13/1010:07> »
Evo is the only corp actually on Mars. Ares has a base orbiting one of the Mars' moons.
REJOICE! For bad things are about to happen.
la vida no vale nada

CanRay

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« Reply #96 on: <06-07-13/1257:55> »
I wonder if they found the portal to Hell yet, and if one lone Marine has to deal with it?
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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Boomstick

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« Reply #97 on: <06-07-13/1755:29> »
True in general, but the system at play here could be in tandem instead of simultaneous. It could be a dissonant-through-cyberware net-virus that merely sends control through the attached meat, which would then affect a degree of whatever was part of that person (like being Awakened).
Mirikon also pointed out something like that.
One thing there is still is that possessed TM can't use their abilities. It wouldn't do in the other direction, too, if it was really some kind of possession I guess. But it is metagame thinking. I guess that they would not want to break the parallels between magic and technomancy.

Quote
part of your personnality is genetic,
and part of your behavior related to the way your brain structures are organized, which is at first decided by genetics as well as informations acquired by environmental stimuli)
As this is part of my degree, I can tell you that genetics do not make the personality - although some people explain it like this, it's a grossly inaccurate oversimplification. More accurately, it forms some very wide borders on what our personality can develop, as well as occasionally facilitating certain personality development.
Well, I said parts, and I am very well aware of that. But as with examples like some people having an allele being completely immune to some kind of addictions while others are exposed to ten years earlier onsets, or the fact that borderline, schizophrenic, antisocial and thrill-seeking personalities are more bound to be driven in addiction, or that some gene alleles increase the risk of having some or other neurosis and so on, you can easily imagine that what is true for pathologies is true also for the basal working of the brain. And, also, that what is valid assessment for all cognitive processing like "music/face recognition", "memory reinforcement", "conditioning sensitivity", praxia, and so on, could also be for more "emotive" functions. In any case, our personality is also widely a product of our own personal abilities, because we are bound by our own abilities to interpret signals and stimuli of our environment. 
 So I would not set these borders as wide as you do.  Tests showed that depending on individual abilities, there are schemes of learning that lead easily to improvement or frustration. And guess what?  In some conditions, there are no taylored teaching, so a whole part of people in these conditions are literaly left apart (and potentially, driven in a state where they can't learn properly basics, be it reading, writing or so on, and it could apply also on "relational skills" and "personality"). Indeed, that's a combination of environment and background and genetics, but it means that genetics still play a good part, with alleles granting us some levels of abilities in differents mental tools.  There is not so much of exceptional people because it usually makes them dysfonctional in some way, but evolution did, in some way, select a level of intelligence and abilities that is balanced for us being able to overcome problems with our smarts while not being overwhelmed by it. Because at times, you just have to be a grunt, fight your way, break things, steal the day without being too empathic, and get the girl.
So there are not a lot of variability for each tool and that flatten differences, which makes people relatively equal to become anybody depending on the environment, but as with combinations of variable things, sometimes differences add up in some directions and go beyond the regular  boundaries.
At least, that's my theory, for the last part, the beginning being a lot of proven things by people before me.
It hope this is not too grossly and inaccurately oversimplified for you;)

________________________________________________________________________________________________________
At first I came back to this thread in order to speak about something else:
reading Nath's unofficial Storm Front errata proposition on the board, the "Ada" name rang some bells.
Is there a link with Ada lovelace (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace), or even better, with Gibson and Williams "The Difference Engine "
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Difference_Engine)?
If there was, well, the topic being "computer science" and its potentiality, well I guess that it would fit to Sybil virus.
And Oh shit, as I write I guess I stroke some spot, because the history follows Sybil Gerard, a political courtesan and daughter of an executed Luddite leader (she is borrowed from Disraeli's novel Sybil).

And spoil about the history;[spoiler]she has multiple identities, there is some degrees of alternate reality involved and  some very powerful computer mac guffing in the form of punched cards. Sybil's name is itself drawn from this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_%28novel%29 where the story is about exploitation and society divides[/spoiler]

While the stories contents are not indeed the same than the storyline for Sybil virus, I guess there could be some degree of inspiration from these real facts, not that it will  help more regarding Shadowrun to know what is really going on.
But I think there is really something.

Edit: my looking made me found so far some relationship of Ada to "Gödel's theorems (at least in Gibson/Williams book).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorem
They are also known as "incompleteness theorem".
I wonder if now I saw some kind of relationship I am making all these up or if that makes sense for someone else?

Edit 2: I had another question; I was under the feeling that something in Wolf's entity post on Jackpoint was familiar, but I don't have a photographic memory anymore and not very used to english literature in original version, so maybe my feeling recognizes some meaning but not exact words because I read the translated version of the book where some sentence was picked up...
But there is more meaning to this than just a straight manifesto. There is more symbolism to it because of relationship with a previous work, I guess?
« Last Edit: <06-07-13/1825:01> by Boomstick »
"A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally."
Oscar Wilde

Great Dragon: "Oh, look, he has a grenade belt. I guess it is time to retire quickly".
The more it changes, the more it is not the same  any more...:P

Sichr

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« Reply #98 on: <06-07-13/1830:30> »
It is nice to have game written by such educated people. I love this feed for thought...

Boomstick

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« Reply #99 on: <06-07-13/1835:48> »
Well, I am actually very surprised that I read nothing such this before.
I made the connection because of the Ada name (which in SF, is not a name, but an acronym), but actually Williams/Gibson book is widely known among cyberpunk readers, and even Ada lovelace is pretty well known around people who study computer sciences. I actually know here because even if I never studied these formally, I got some interesting conversations about it which then went about her. She was an amazing person.
And I am just wondering if these are just hommage names, or if there is more than that to the names?
"A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally."
Oscar Wilde

Great Dragon: "Oh, look, he has a grenade belt. I guess it is time to retire quickly".
The more it changes, the more it is not the same  any more...:P

Boomstick

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« Reply #100 on: <06-07-13/2146:19> »
Don't know if anybody found that: https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3003481329/69b76cc7794d4273e8068ca6f0e1c084.jpeg
on this twitter: https://twitter.com/srschletz.

Here are my hypotheses about what is the entity who wrote:

[spoiler]Maybe it is some strange fusion of both of the greatest threats of Matrix and Magic.
It seems to have had some problem with nanoforges, and to be a fan of Ares since the event.
A big fan. Which are using insect spirits, in some way.
Taking up both thing, pushing them to eleven? Well, gestalt is a good solution, the whole is superior to the sum of the part.
There are sprites which are basically spirits of the matrix. Then came unwired creatures. We still don't know for "insect spirits" but Matrix in itself is a hive of people. Maybe we are the insects to be crushed by "Mantis" viruses that came to life. Be it by Magic or AI, or Dissonance or everything at the same time. Smelling like shit, I wanted to make a hack if I could play SR5 (wishful thinking) but I think things are gonna be nasty inside the Grid now.
Making me think about Echo, which was a program designed to kill other programs. Viruses. Deus, which was the most monstruous abomination we ever made, thinking of himself as a god over human insects. And who had so much power he was able to transform human flesh into biologic hosts for himself. Megaera/Morgane, whose "mind" went south after humans "studied" her "alive". Jormugand, another abomination fated to destroy the Matrix as we know it.
Everything there rings some bell about the new entity.
And remember, first ICE came to be created because corps took up remnants of the Virus of the first crash, whose origin was never known, and which somehow found a way to kill human (as far as we know it, it was only biofeedback consequent to simsense malfunction. But maybe it was designed to track humans and kill them. Maybe he wanted it, too). I would not be surprises that Novatech host was scavenged in the aftermath in the same way they tried to use the Virus code. They never learn. Maybe in some way, they created some "matrix dna pattern" that was able to resonate alike magic with DNA in a way opening channels to some nasty thing, like some kind of Mantis spirit, or it is just plain nasty code borrowed from 4 of the most potent Matrix Entity in the whole shadowrun history.
I am eager to know more.
Damn!
[/spoiler]

And that bit of japanese song about the sentence "we rewrite our lives" found in the text of Wolf;
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/632693-silent-hill-book-of-memories/62598613
[spoiler]
Quote
[
This isn't the life that I dreamed it could be
I'm starin' into the eyes of the shell left of me

and now, every decision I make
the good, the pleasure, and the pain
could simply all be erased
if I choose it to be


this nightmare unfolds like a rose awakes to the spring
always so close to the sanity I'm trying to cling to

I'm tearin' out the pages 'cause it hurts
to be forced to feel the hearts break
how much of this torture can I take?
is it not worth the risk to create
just one
more try
I know that I can fix it

if you could rewrite our life any way that you please
would you tear out the pages of our memories?
would you take back the pain and all the hurt we create?
or could you be satisfied with the love that you've made
with me?

if you could rewrite our life any way that you please
would you tear out the pages of our memories?

would you take back the pain and all the hurt we create?
or could you be satisfied with the promise you made?

so we rewrite our lives but it's not what we think
in the chaos we dance as we stand on the brink
always one change away from makin' ourselves complete
the world will perish in flames
and I'll watch as you fade from me


we write our love psalm
rewrite our love psalm
we write our love psalm
rewrite our love psalm
/quote]

Now, I know that this part of my post is the less solid, and is on the boundaries of funny, but I like how some randomness would make it fit with the topic at work;)
[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: <06-07-13/2157:38> by Boomstick »
"A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally."
Oscar Wilde

Great Dragon: "Oh, look, he has a grenade belt. I guess it is time to retire quickly".
The more it changes, the more it is not the same  any more...:P

Sichr

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« Reply #101 on: <06-08-13/0330:52> »
well, we have posession based traditions in magic, why not having this being matrix equivalent for sprites or some memetic entities...

Boomstick

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« Reply #102 on: <06-08-13/0731:58> »
If I remember well, Mantis spirits were  the ones who automatically succeeded in merging with bodies thus being stealth, compared to the others who would be in insect or merged form? That could fit.
I am making sense here? Or is it just really wild speculation of myself gone crazy?

The only thing that would not make sense here is the relationship with nanobots and gentech. Apart of the fact that those new tech "predates" the previous ones, but that's very far-fetched.
Does possessing spirit need some sacrifice to do such? I don't remember that?
But it could be some "Essence drain" power version which works in this way (and thus as Essence is assimilated, that would be like a "Karma sacrifice" made to make something magic permanent. But that would be a premiere here in the game system and the internal logic of the world.)
So I am still balancing between both possibilities I stated. One is just an addition to the other, but actually they could be as well separated.
That would not make them less dangerous or freaky.
"A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally."
Oscar Wilde

Great Dragon: "Oh, look, he has a grenade belt. I guess it is time to retire quickly".
The more it changes, the more it is not the same  any more...:P

Sichr

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« Reply #103 on: <06-08-13/0811:02> »
No speculation is crazy enought. As we have Materialization power for Spirits, I would expect Sprites too would be able to affect physical world. If the first signs are in this form, I wont be surprised. But since it is mentioned in plotline campaign product I would bet that it would be more like one-time event that is set to motion by some current powerplayers. OR maybe introducing a new one....

Boomstick

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« Reply #104 on: <06-08-13/0824:36> »
Maybe, maybe not. TM were introduced as part of plots, in some ways. Shedim too, and while they are not as much active, they did not faded completely, or am I wrong?
But I guess that will make a good campaign were players will have to have some role in fighting back. Or helping them.
"A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally."
Oscar Wilde

Great Dragon: "Oh, look, he has a grenade belt. I guess it is time to retire quickly".
The more it changes, the more it is not the same  any more...:P