NEWS

Sybil virus: Clues and wild speculations

  • 626 Replies
  • 129942 Views

martinchaen

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #570 on: <05-31-14/1457:14> »
Mirikon, I direct your attention to the following quotes from various books.

Quote from: Dragon Hunt, p58
For reasons that may never be learned, the one exposure the Dragon had to the actual Matrix was agnoizing, and left Eliohann teetering on the edge of insanity.

Quote from: Dragons of the Sixth World p162
Speaking of yourself in the third person, Cerberus? Perhaps that datajack isn't working as well as it should be, or your time in the Matrix has affected you more than you believe.
- Grier

Quote from: Dragons of the Sixth World p162
Neurosis was the name of the decker on [the run that extracted Eliohann], but he died; Ares black IC scorched his brain. Eliohann picked up the Neurosis name and started using it, just like Cerberus. The dragon's got multiple personality disorder - and probably bigger problems - thanks to the chrome in his head. Animals, dragons or not, were not meant to jack in.
- Burning Chrome

Quote from: Street Legends p120
[Eliohann] was just a kid - whatever that means by dragon standards, anyway - when he was abducted (by shadowrunners) and turned into a guinea pig in an Emerging Futures laboratory. The early-generation datajack they fitted him with was not without complications, which is a nice way of saying that the cognitive dissonance it caused him drove him insane.

Quote from: Street Legends p120
Eliohann became completely immersed in Matrix research, with himself as the primary subject. In fact, he spent so much of his time in the Matrix that it wouldn’t be unfair to call him a junkie. The effects it had on him were severe, and surprisingly well documented. In fact, it’s those side effects that probably prevented Eliohann/Emerging Futures from claiming the bequest in Dunkelzahn’s will. Chances are, he was still working out the kinks and biding his time when Crash 2.0 happened. Anyway, by 2057 Eliohann had already developed the beginnings of a severe dissociative disorder, with symptoms of genuine dissociative personality disorder.

I'm sorry, you were saying? Combine the above with this last quote, and it's pretty clear that Eliohann is a little unstable.

Quote from: Street Legends p121
Like so many on the morning of November 2nd, Eliohann flatlined, his mind shredded by the Jormungand virus, leaving behind only a lifeless, comatose husk.

"his mind shredded". "the edge of insanity". "multiple personality disorder". "cognitive dissonance". "drove him insane". Not terms that are ambiguous, are they. Not to mention that according to Plan 9 and the data file he got apparently has "surprisingly well documented" proof of not only Eliohann's actions, but even those of Celedyr himself.

Add in the fact that Cerberus and/or Neurosis have been tampering with AI, black box systems from sealed floors of the damned SCIRE, and the simple truth that Neurosis made sure to tell Plan 9 that Neurosis was the one who provided the data upload on Cerberus and even wanted to be named as the source, and I think there's some compelling evidence to suggest that Eliohann is not entirely himself.

In fact, the data upload on Cerberus goes on to state that "Eliohann/Cerberus seems to have sublimated his draconic nature entirely, embracing his nature as a creature purely of the Matrix". Plan 9 also comments on the fact that Cerberus might not actually be Eliohann, but Cerberus certainly believes he is Eliohann. And we all know what Project Imago, led by Celedyr and his pet "Eliohann", has been up to...

So yeah, I refute your statement that Eliohann is fully in control of himself by the veritable mountain of evidence from generations of fluff indicating otherwise.

I do agree on your point about Eliohann not being Sybil, though. I think there are other forces at work, there. Also, where is it confirmed that PAX has access to such a technomantic ritual? I don't think I've read that story.

[EDIT]
Although his last statement in the Street Legends file does seem damned creepy now that I think about it, especially since it's stated as Neurosis, not Cerberus.

Quote from: Street Legends p123
> On the contrary. I’m not that special. I’m here for business, like the rest of you. My rebirth - my current state - changes little. I don’t claim to be the first, and I’m sure I won’t be the last. On a microcircuit board, we will all be born again.
> Neurosis
« Last Edit: <05-31-14/1508:42> by martinchaen »

Sichr

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 7202
  • TOTÁLNÍ FAŠÍRKA ZMRDI !!!
« Reply #571 on: <05-31-14/1627:46> »
Everything we know say than no entity can be affected with CFD, hat has no physical body. E-Ghodt rewrirten by e-ghosts are somthinf out of topic, as talking about e-sapient entities...does even definition of "personality" apply to such beings?

martinchaen

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #572 on: <05-31-14/1631:21> »
Everything we know say than no entity can be affected with CFD, hat has no physical body. E-Ghodt rewrirten by e-ghosts are somthinf out of topic, as talking about e-sapient entities...does even definition of "personality" apply to such beings?
?

Sendaz

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2219
  • Associate of Rywfol Emwolb Industries
« Reply #573 on: <05-31-14/1829:32> »
The Doc did show that CFD could infect some larger mammals and paracritters, resulting in increased intelligence, but probably not fully able to express the full on personalities or maybe this is just due to the disorientation of being in a non-humanoid form and over time one might see this better expressed.

No mention of an emerged critter, though they probably would respond similarly to how the EK host did.
Do you believe in a greater WIRELESS, an Invisible(WiFi) All Seeing(detecting those connected- at least if within 100'), All Knowing(all online data) Presence that we can draw upon for Wisdom(downloads & updates), Strength (wifi boni) and Comfort (porn) or do you turn your back on it  (Go Offline)?

Sichr

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 7202
  • TOTÁLNÍ FAŠÍRKA ZMRDI !!!
« Reply #574 on: <05-31-14/1838:27> »
Everything we know say than no entity can be affected with CFD, hat has no physical body. E-Ghodt rewrirten by e-ghosts are somthinf out of topic, as talking about e-sapient entities...does even definition of "personality" apply to such beings?
?
sorry for some typos, i am posting pn the road from my phone. basics is...does "personality" apply on AI's? Touring test is one thing, and I believe I know a few people who wont never pass the zeat, well it is designed fir recognizing Artifical Inteligence. Not Artifical Personality. So. would we suppose that AI has some behavioral pattern we call personality that CFD infection Is able to rewrite?

martinchaen

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #575 on: <05-31-14/1919:33> »
Do we know that an AI has managed to "cross over"? If any of the head crash cases in the book are in fact AI then it seems clear to me that they certainly have the capacity to learn behaviours and the like; does that mean they have a personality? I'd say so, considering they are capable of "evolving", at least mentally.

SlowDeck

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1015
  • How do people add personal text under their name?
« Reply #576 on: <05-31-14/1921:44> »
We do know at least one has managed to cross over. That one is in the story Freedom Isn't Free at the start of Storm Front.
"Speech" Spirit/"Astral" Thought/"Subvocal" Matrix/"Commlink" "Totem" [Time/Date] <<Text&email>>

Sichr

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 7202
  • TOTÁLNÍ FAŠÍRKA ZMRDI !!!
« Reply #577 on: <05-31-14/2225:02> »
Do we know that an AI has managed to "cross over"? If any of the head crash cases in the book are in fact AI then it seems clear to me that they certainly have the capacity to learn behaviours and the like; does that mean they have a personality? I'd say so, considering they are capable of "evolving", at least mentally.

OK. Now....from the human POV...would anyone would be able to notice the change of behaviour of such entity? My opoinion is NO. As we, IMO, heave difiiculty to understand their "personalities", how would we know they are infected, if they still act in their own modus operandi, but with differtent target? I am not sure if I am able to say it right in english, well, if people can change their mind, how would you recognize that the change in AI behaviour isnt just that, but it is CFD?

martinchaen

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #578 on: <06-01-14/0002:49> »
An AI in and of itself wouldn't be susceptible to CFD, though. As far as we know, the AI only takes over biological hosts, and one of the symptoms is a personality change. I'm not quite sure what you're asking here, to be honest.

SlowDeck

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1015
  • How do people add personal text under their name?
« Reply #579 on: <06-01-14/0025:28> »
Pages 15 and 16, titled Infecting The Overwritten: Battle for the Mind. That section is key, and according to it, any CFD personality that has taken over a host is, itself, potentially vulnerable to being overwritten by another.

Beyond that, it seems to imply that these personalities take over electronic devices, but not what happens to AIs or e-ghosts in them. We know they can overwrite each other on the biological side, but lack information on the technological side.
"Speech" Spirit/"Astral" Thought/"Subvocal" Matrix/"Commlink" "Totem" [Time/Date] <<Text&email>>

Sichr

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 7202
  • TOTÁLNÍ FAŠÍRKA ZMRDI !!!
« Reply #580 on: <06-01-14/0523:06> »
An AI in and of itself wouldn't be susceptible to CFD, though. As far as we know, the AI only takes over biological hosts, and one of the symptoms is a personality change. I'm not quite sure what you're asking here, to be honest.

Just trying to eliminate theory that Elionahh is infected. Yes, this "ghost in the machine" is something different from AI, well there may be some of mutual points.
OTOH...
it would be fun to find out, that some CFD personalities are e-ghosts of Crash 2.0. victims, and that Part of Eliohanns consciousness is still out there waiting for proper host...
Or that he finds out, that he is able to use the same mechanism Sybil uses to take back his body...using nanites to upload himself to that piece of vegetable he called body once, and that I can imagine Celedyr or someone else is keeping in some vault...

martinchaen

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #581 on: <06-01-14/0859:04> »
Aha. I would agree in that I don't think the Eliohann e-ghost/electronic entity is infected.

Also, I'm pretty sure the fluff from Stolen Souls strongly indicates if not flat out proves that some of the head crashes are being taken over by e-ghosts.

SlowDeck

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1015
  • How do people add personal text under their name?
« Reply #582 on: <06-01-14/1040:27> »
Flat-out proves. The text notes that e-ghosts have an easier time adapting to flesh-and-blood bodies.
"Speech" Spirit/"Astral" Thought/"Subvocal" Matrix/"Commlink" "Totem" [Time/Date] <<Text&email>>

DeathStrobe

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 870
  • Front Range Free Decker
    • Dethstrobe.com
« Reply #583 on: <06-01-14/1315:50> »
While on the topic of Eliohann and multiple personalities. There maybe some precedence that people with multiple personalities can manifest two personas on the Matrix in a powerful enough environment.

In the Denver: City of Shadows boxset one of the possible explanations of Bash is that he's actually a second personality of Shiva and is only able to exist do to all the raw computing power of the Denver Nexus.

So it is possible that Cerberus and Neurosis are actually two different Personas in the Matrix, but both came from Eliohann.

Nightmare

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 230
  • Freelance merc, runner, and assassin
« Reply #584 on: <06-04-14/1050:30> »
While on the topic of Eliohann and multiple personalities. There maybe some precedence that people with multiple personalities can manifest two personas on the Matrix in a powerful enough environment.

In the Denver: City of Shadows boxset one of the possible explanations of Bash is that he's actually a second personality of Shiva and is only able to exist do to all the raw computing power of the Denver Nexus.

So it is possible that Cerberus and Neurosis are actually two different Personas in the Matrix, but both came from Eliohann.

Actually I think that Cerberus/Neurosis/Eliohann might be similar to what happens to Quicksilver in the old adventure Imago.  The idea that different  parts of the persona are stored in separate parts fits with the idea that Celedyr later bought Quicksilver's deck to  study it.  Just an idea.