[DamienHollow]

So if nanites make the feed stock, and the forge/hive made nanites, and they replicated out of control, would it still be a true grey goo scenario because a macro device was involved?

[Aryeonos]

Grey goo is an impossible scenario. There is a limit to how much a nanite knows, and what it knows how to dissasemble, it could know how to manipulate one particle, but not another. And as far as I know nanintes can't break atomic bonds and reassemble electrons to build different atomic structures, they just aren't that small, and if they say they are well I don't know what to say.

[DamienHollow]

True grey goo no, but do you really want to try and out build nanites who's only job is to take apart that steel gun you're buildings as you build it? And I'd like to address the idea of an A.I. to do the thinking for them.

[Aryeonos]

They don't have computing intelligence's, they should function on entirely mechanical principals. Though, I believe SR has microcomputing for them, so that really throws out just about every parameter we have today concerning nano machines. And nano is a misnomer, they're actually Micro-Machines, GITS has this little caveat right. They can be observed under a microscope.

[Vass654]

From what I can see, a desktop forge is just a 3D printer, so the feedstock is actually a powder. Shouldn't you be able to just fit a tag eraser into the feed chute of the feedstock hopper, and just have it run while the printer is running, thus erase all the tags from the feedstock as it pours into the printing area?

Or, hell, just make your own feedstock, depending on what you're building, it's just powdered metal. I'm seeing that kind of crap for like... A firearm. Just a plain vanilla firearm doesn't need electronics in it, so you could possibly crank a tag eraser up to 11, and fry everything, or just use a powdered metal/alloy that you have made/gotten as a clean feedstock.

I keep thinking of the recent PopSci (I think it was PopSci...) article talking about a 3D printer using titanium powder, and a group trying to print a full prosthetic hand using it, but they also talked about using them to print turbines for jet engines.

Which leads me to think... With a big enough one, couldn't you build some pretty hefty weapons, or drones?

[Mantis]

It isn't just a 3d printer. It includes tools to do the work needed as well. You take a -2 penalty to using it though, as it doesn't include things like hoists or lifts for heavy work. You can also already get clean feedstock without the RFID tags. It just costs more and is harder to get (pg 131 Arsenal).

[Vass654]

I know you could get clean feedstock, but it seemed silly expensive and a pain if you could just make your own... And I'm not getting why it has a lack of tools problem, especially for the toolbox sized one. What are you building with it that you can't just pick up and bolt on, if its a part like that? The truck sized one, but... Couldn't you supplement it with tools, like a chain hoist?

[Mantis]

Sure. The penalty is for when the forge is all you have to work with. One of the advantages of the forge is that you can lug the thing with you on runs for in field repairs or mods that require a shop. Pretty useful.
I agree that the clean feedstock is really expensive. Your idea of running a Tag Eraser over the regular stuff would work I would think. Just adds some extra time to the job, though if they've stuck Security tags in there it won't erase them. Maybe an EMP grenade? Either way, I imagine the clean stock is priced that way for 'balance'. We just use it as an excuse to hunt the stuff down on runs and steal it or make it part of a payment.
I think since the corps in the SR world cracked down so hard on desktop manufacturing that maybe the materials needed for the feedstock just isn't as commonly available as it is in the real world.

[DamienHollow]

the tags are stealth i believe. Also, I could just see a feedstock maker being added to the game... for an additional sum of Nuyen.