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katana: two handed?

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RHat

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« Reply #60 on: (01:47:25/04-30-13) »
It's not that it CAN'T be done.  There's simply a penalty assessed for it. 
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Medicineman

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« Reply #61 on: (02:06:46/04-30-13) »
It's not that it CAN'T be done.  There's simply a penalty assessed for it.
:)
My Argument is ,that If I ,as a normal Person ,can wield and fight without (or with only a small ) penalty than a Streetsam ,Ork or (especially a Streetsam-)Troll shouldn't have any at all

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RHat

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« Reply #62 on: (02:12:03/04-30-13) »
I'd argue that you're incorrect about the lack of penalty - the one handed grip drastically interferes with the cutting technique.
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Aryeonos

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« Reply #63 on: (02:31:22/04-30-13) »
uuh, not so much, the hilt of a Katana is smooth and without large cumbersome weights (Which I have learned will cut up your wrists quite painfully)

It would have less strength when hitting a solid object though, so a two handed grip would be necessary to cut bone or through armour.

There are Middle Eastern and Indian swords that can be handled similarly, though Indian swords more commonly have 2 hand sized grips than Middle Eastern ones.
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viaRailGun

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« Reply #64 on: (02:49:12/04-30-13) »

It would have less strength when hitting a solid object though, so a two handed grip would be necessary to cut bone or through armour.


thus making way for using both hands to increase DV
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viaRailGun

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« Reply #65 on: (02:56:55/04-30-13) »
classifying the katana as a two-handed weapon in SR4 puts the weapon in complete unbalance when compared to others. for example the nodachi and combat axe both have a reach of 2, making the katana the only two-handed non-exotic weapon with a reach of 1, and both have greater DV. the monofil. sword can be used two handed to increase DV but the katana can't? here's my point, it puts the katana somewhere in the middle, unable to increase DV with two hands and less reach than other two handed weapons. two handed katanas are broken IMO.
« Last Edit: (12:05:08/04-30-13) by viaRailGun »
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Elektrycerze3

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« Reply #66 on: (03:11:31/04-30-13) »
So let me get this straight:

To back the position, that the katana is really one handed one needs to use the Arsenal, to reference a number of quite vague rules and jump to an assumption, that "two-handed" is one-handed, which can be used two-handed.

On the other hand all the opponents of the position have to reference is just the description of the katana using the most logical and wide-spread definition of "two-handed". That's it.

I'm so with JoeNapalm on this!

BTW, although katana really looks cool and you can admire the design, it's efficiency in combat is hugely overrated (thanks to anime, I guess). My opinion was defined by this episode of the Deadliest Warrior.
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dertechie

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« Reply #67 on: (04:00:57/04-30-13) »
So let me get this straight:

To back the position, that the katana is really one handed one needs to use the Arsenal, to reference a number of quite vague rules and jump to an assumption, that "two-handed" is one-handed, which can be used two-handed.

That, or a simple application of Rule Zero.  It doesn't break anything, and saddling the Katana with being two handed basically makes it a strictly worse monofilament sword.  It's a Cool Sword (Standard TVTropes Warning), and since it neither breaks anything nor severely breaks versimilitude, it looks like a lot of people have Rule Zero'd it (sometimes without noticing).  I know I have.

Trying to find RAW or even RAI backup for what is essentially a Rule Zero call is where things get ugly.  Real ugly.

Elektrycerze3

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« Reply #68 on: (04:20:12/04-30-13) »
So let me get this straight:

To back the position, that the katana is really one handed one needs to use the Arsenal, to reference a number of quite vague rules and jump to an assumption, that "two-handed" is one-handed, which can be used two-handed.

That, or a simple application of Rule Zero.  It doesn't break anything, and saddling the Katana with being two handed basically makes it a strictly worse monofilament sword.  It's a Cool Sword (Standard TVTropes Warning), and since it neither breaks anything nor severely breaks versimilitude, it looks like a lot of people have Rule Zero'd it (sometimes without noticing).  I know I have.

Trying to find RAW or even RAI backup for what is essentially a Rule Zero call is where things get ugly.  Real ugly.

I'm cool and have zero problems with rule zero'ing the katana as a Cool Sword (pun intended), those rules-lawyering the katana as a Cool Sword bother me. It's a personal thing: some love the sword, some don't. I'm in the latter camp and it occurs to me that the technological wonder of a monofilament sword should leave the katana far behind. If you love it - go ahead, Rule Zero it, but don't invent intricate explanaitions as to why it is better, RAW or RAI.

P.S.
I personally Rule Zero revolvers at my table ^_^
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Medicineman

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« Reply #69 on: (04:46:57/04-30-13) »
To back the position, that the katana is really one handed one needs to use the Arsenal
If one of my GMs would Tell me, that a Katana is a   2 Handed Weapon only
I'd buy a Monosword add Pimp1 to make it look like a Katana and have a 1handed Katana with a +1 bonus to Intimidate  :P
(for less ¥ than a real Katana IIRC).
I would never ever pay 1000 for a Katana If I can get a better one for 850 ¥ (I'd feel stupid )

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Elektrycerze3

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« Reply #70 on: (04:56:35/04-30-13) »
To back the position, that the katana is really one handed one needs to use the Arsenal
If one of my GMs would Tell me, that a Katana is a   2 Handed Weapon only
I'd buy a Monosword add Pimp1 to make it look like a Katana and have a 1handed Katana with a +1 bonus to Intimidate  :P
(for less ¥ than a real Katana IIRC).
I would never ever pay 1000 for a Katana If I can get a better one for 850 ¥ (I'd feel stupid )

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Medicineman

And you'll have a monofilament weapon, that should be better anyways) Don't see a problem here. BTW, not everyone uses Arsenal: I don't yet.
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Medicineman

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« Reply #71 on: (05:04:29/04-30-13) »
But If You follow that Logic, than a Monosword is always better than a Katana (same stats with less cost) no one would buy a Katana and It'll disappear from the Market (same with light Pistols in SR3)

who would buy a last Gen I-phone for 1000 $ if he can get a new one for 750 $ ?



yahtahey
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« Last Edit: (05:06:35/04-30-13) by Medicineman »
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Elektrycerze3

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« Reply #72 on: (05:09:18/04-30-13) »
But If You follow that Logic, than a Monosword is always better than a Katana (same stats with less cost) no one would buy a Katana and It'll disappear from the Market (same with light Pistols in SR3)

yahtahey
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The m-sword is supposed to be more efficient. But people don't always get what is more efficient, they often get what's hip and popular. Ever heard about those iphones?) Or just check out the car market.

Katanas are adored, there is a cult around them. It doesn't really matter if they are worse than a m-sword: they are way more cool =)
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RHat

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« Reply #73 on: (05:16:38/04-30-13) »
No one has suggested that the rules are GOOD, but they are what they are.  Being aware of that, you're perfectly free to look at houseruling them if you wish.
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Medicineman

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« Reply #74 on: (06:02:41/04-30-13) »
No one has suggested that the rules are GOOD, but they are what they are.  Being aware of that, you're perfectly free to look at houseruling them if you wish.
or using GMV...  Common Sense (I guess) ;)

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