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Why don't dragon destroy the Aztechnology?

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Solo

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« on: <04-24-13/0858:01> »
Hello
i have a huge amount of gaps in my understanding of metaplots (actually, I only have a gap).

The question is as follows, the blood magic from the Aztechnology seems to hastened the coming of the horrors. If the Aztecs are such a threat, why don't the dragons and other major playors just destroy it? Great dragoons + a good bunch of immortal elves should be able to level the head quarters and branches in the major cities..

Thanks for the answers

Mystic

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« Reply #1 on: <04-24-13/1007:39> »
Here's the down and dirty answers.

1) Because in the Dragon Heart trilogy, the hastening has been halted by some serious events. I won't go into spoilers and I recommend reading the novels; they're a decent read. 

2) Because as of the latest release, Storm Front, there's a whole lot of STUFF happening. Specifically, Aztechnology has developed and fielded a viable anti-dragon weapon called Blue-227. It was successfully used to defeat Sirrurg, albeit at great effort and cost to the Azzies. So I think for now they're going to play a "wait and see" game for a while.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #2 on: <04-24-13/1012:37> »
There's multiple things at work here:

1) Leveling buildings doesn't destroy a corporation. Especially not a corporation with a nation in its pocket. To destroy Aztechnology, you need to fight them as a corporation, not with direct violence.

2) Direct violence on that scale turns you into a major target. If the great dragons and immortal elves did such a thing, Omega Orders would follow, because if they can do it to one megacorp, they can do it to any mega they don't like. (Remember, the world at large knows nothing of the Horrors.)

3) Taking out Aztechnology won't solve the problem of who is guiding them. The Smoking Mirror will survive, even if the Azzies don't.


What this means is that the great dragons and immortal elves can't act openly without tipping their hand about the big bads down the road. And what do you think people's reactions will be if a bunch of dragons start sharing that kind of information? Because the dragons and immortal elves have hidden behind the veil of secrecy for so long, pulling back the curtain will cause as many problems as it might solve, and in the confusion the real troublemakers at AZT will slip through the cracks.
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« Reply #3 on: <04-24-13/1514:29> »
Also, like it or not, AZT is a AAA-Corporation and a major part of the Corporate Court, a major power that even the Dragons have to respect.  Yes, even Lofwyr.

AZT is doomed, but it'll be a dragon's game that does it.  Likely, it'll just take (metahuman) generations.

Also, there is the possibility that a dragon is one of the forces in charge of AZT, which makes matters...  Difficult under draconic society.
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Nath

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« Reply #4 on: <04-24-13/1716:56> »
Tackling the drain of a spell with blood magic or summoning a blood spirit actually do very little to hasten the arrival of Horrors. The ritual used by Daniel Coleman to perform the Ghost Dance, or whatever the blood mages did with the artifact called the Locus, really were significant events. After Harlequin and Dunkelzahn disrupted Darke plans, blood magic is more of a long-term threat (at least until yet another sinister plan is discovered).
 
Back in 2056, at the time of the Aztlan Sourcebook, the major Awakened players knew the Aztlaner practiced blood magic, but do not worry too much about it. They are still baffled to learn that the blood mages of Aztlan may know the real implication of they're doing. Only Dunkelzahn is slightly more knowledgeable, but he devoted a lot of time and resources to spy on Aztechnology, while having a seat on their board of directors. Dunkelzahn also suggests that Hualpa and other Amazonian dragons are well aware of Aztlan use of blood magic, but chose to stay silent about it, withholding information even from other Amazonian awakened (rather than recognizing that the knowledge of blood magic the feathered serpents taught to metahumanity to fight off the Horror during the Fourth World wasn't lost as they thought it would).

In 2057, Dunkelzahn put an halt to the early coming of Horrors. Darke is either dead or on the run. By 2061, the evil force behind Aztechnology maintained its hold on the board members, the remaining blood mages were only a small number of rather high-level Initiate (grade 8+) hiding from internal purge or deported.
At this point it would have made sense for dragons to consider Aztlan blood mages were no longer a major threat, because that was what SR authors wanted it to be! It was the Apep Consortium who was supposed to be the new front for Horrors.

But the blood mages of Aztlan have returned since, first during the Yucatan War, then at the highest level. The recent sourcebooks suggest blood mages are now again considered as an elite inside Aztechnology and Aztlan. During the Colombian War, one of the most secret unit of the Aztlan army was the Blood Daggers, with 30-40 blood mages, receiving their order directly from HQ, with a focus on eliminating Amazonian high-level initiates.

I can see the immortal elves from Tir Tairngire being more occupied by their own situation, Lofwyr wary that taking on Aztechnology would be interpreted as a move from Saeder-Krupp CEO and have geo-economical consequences. Ghostwalker would be the most willing to take on Aztechnology. Maybe he considered regenerating Zebulon/Yuichotol was his priority.

It's possible the great dragons actually consider the knowledge of blood magic by metahumanity in America is the concern of the feathered serpents who taught them in the first place, ie. Amazonia. Though it technically was triggered by Aztechnology, the Colombian War may actually be the first part of Hualpa and Sirrurg action to deal with the threat of blood magic.
It would shed a new light on Hestaby condemnation of Sirrurg war crimes. If other dragons said it was up to Hualpa, Sirrurg and their allies were to use any mean necessary to eliminate the Aztlan blood mages (a sort of Council Mandate), without setting any limit, it would be difficult to condemn Sirrurg action afterwards. That would explain why Hestaby didn't call a draconic meeting to discuss Sirrurg action first, and moved it to the UN instead.
« Last Edit: <04-26-13/1836:39> by Nath »

Solo

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« Reply #5 on: <04-26-13/0933:21> »
Great info. thanks a lot...

Where do you get all this?
Is there a source book with all this info?

Mirikon

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« Reply #6 on: <04-26-13/0949:55> »
The info on Dunkelzhan putting a stop to the Horrors coming through is from the Dragonheart Trilogy novels.
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Mystic

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« Reply #7 on: <04-26-13/0950:44> »
Not a single soursebook, I'm afraid. But here is some stuff to get you started...If I forgot something please speak up.

SR Sourcebooks:

Aztlan (2nd Ed?)
Threats (Info on Darke, 2nd Ed)
Street Magic (3rd Ed)

Novels:

Dragon Heart Saga by Jak Koke

Stranger Souls
Clockwork Asylum
Beyond the Pale

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Crimsondude

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« Reply #8 on: <04-26-13/1032:50> »
The surviving Great Dragons of the Sixth World could not fathom the idea that within 46 years of the Awakening that concerted effort could bridge the gap, even factoring for the spike caused by the Great Ghost Dance.


Pride Goeth Before The Fall.




Personally, I'm glad to be done with that plot for all intents and purposes.

JoeNapalm

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« Reply #9 on: <04-30-13/1357:49> »
Nine good reasons:

The Lords of the Night.


-Jn-
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« Last Edit: <04-30-13/1359:27> by JoeNapalm »

Red Canti

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« Reply #10 on: <05-01-13/1056:14> »
Nine good reasons:

The Lords of the Night.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Who?
"Always Trust Mr. Johnson, always. Just make sure he knows he'd regret betraying that trust."

JoeNapalm

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« Reply #11 on: <05-01-13/1108:45> »
Nine good reasons:

The Lords of the Night.


-Jn-
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Who?

Mesoamerican Night Lords.

Tlaloc, Tlazoteotl, Tepeyollotl, Centeotl, Itztli, Xiuhtecuhtli, Piltzintecuhtli, Chalchiuhtlicue, and Mictlantecuhtli.

I haven't read enough of the source material on Aztechnology to know if it's reflected in-game (I have the rare opportunity not to GM, so I'm staying out of everything but splatbooks), but if North Amerind "mythology" has proven functional enough for a Ghost Dance, I would put the Nine Lords of the Night firmly at the top of my "Do Not Annoy" list.

If they're not in game already, as Horrors, they should be.


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« Last Edit: <05-01-13/1110:47> by JoeNapalm »

Bruce

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« Reply #12 on: <07-03-13/1318:45> »
The dragons don't have a choice.

A viable, technological method for killing all dragons now exists.  There's no reason to presume that Aztlan would not deploy this method at every opportunity.  Granted, getting the cost down might take a few years, but eventually Aztlan will be capable of committing dragoncide.  And there's no reason why they wouldn't.  Dragons have a lot of enemies, so it's not like there will be a major outcry about the event.

Even if we presume that Aztlan, for whatever reasons, decides not to utilize their weapon...others will.  Military secrets, as an alien once observed, are the most fleeting of all.  Other corps, other countries, major private interests will either reverse-engineer the weapon, or steal the plans. 

The dragons only hope of survival is to erase all plans, all extant examples, and every single person who knew anything about the construction of the weapon before it gets outside Aztlan.  And hope that upcoming events happen before others manage to replicate the research.  It's not a great hope...but when it's your only chance...

Lysanderz

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« Reply #13 on: <07-03-13/1739:28> »
Because if they do that I'll have to stop taking trips there to black-bag blood mages for bounties. 1,000,000 buys a sweet vacation package

Black

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« Reply #14 on: <07-03-13/1851:40> »
'cause even Dragons can't get enough Stuffers!  :P
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