[Nomad Zophiel]

Looking over the Black Market Goods rules and the Fencing Gear rules, it seems like the Shadowrunner gets screwed coming and going. There are options to pay more when buying and accept less when selling. A heavy social character winds up dealing person to person with no contacts in between. Regardless of their skill, though, it seems like the PC fixer has little choice but to pay 100% of the list cost on average and sell at 30%. Using a fixer makes these numbers even more unfavorable. I know the older versions of SR included some sort of Negotiation system to modify the black market prices but I long since lost all my old books. Shouldn't a character with the gift of the gab and a lot of connections be able to find someone who has the gear and needs the money (able to be negotiated down a la Pawn Stars) or find someone who really needs the gear and is willing to pay a premium?

[Dakka]

Getting a premium on your gear is a pretty common use of the Negotiation skill.  As with many of the social skills, it all comes down to what the GM will let you get away with.  Maybe you sell at 30% the first time to a fence just to establish trust, but going back to the same fence I'd think would allow a little negotiation wiggle room.  You'd have to be willing to accept less than 30% in the event of catastrophic failure tho, but that's not going to happen right? 

Fences tend to be high Cha and have the Negotiation skill as well so it's not exactly an easy test.  Our group uses opposed Negotiation tests (with modifiers) with net hits being 5% increases to a max of 50% of the gear value (I think, I'm not actually the face so I don't really pay attention).  Of course if you LOSE this test then the fence gets the better deal and you get 25%-15% (minimum) of the gear's listed value.

The reason its a flat number is because fencing stuff is supposed to be easy.  Find a fence, unload all your junk.  Done.  As far as buying goes there are ways to get an item at less than 100% but you have to be willing to buy hot items that come with unwanted attention.

[Glyph]

Shadowrunners are penalized for selling stuff because they are usually trying to unload stolen goods in a hurry and off the books.  They are penalized for buying stuff because they want rare and/or illegal stuff, sometimes in a hurry, and usually off the books.

For a fixer type, he would not be in the typical shadowrunner's role, but in the middleman role.  People would unload cheap stolen goods to him, and would pay him a commission to broker deals to get them stuff.  Sometimes there will be serendipity (someone unloads some SMGs taken from some security guards cheaply, and the local street gang, looking for heavier firepower, pays extra for them).  A fixer, assuming he has the connections, will generally make money both ways.  However, street cost modifiers can affect his bottom line (fake AK-97 knockoffs flooding the street, a rival dealer offering cheaper Kong chips, one guy controlling the influx of awakened botanicals being smuggled through the Cascades, etc.).  Also, he will need to worry about rivals, people out to squeeze information out of him, syndicates wanting to bring an independent operator into their stable, and greedy punks who see a fixer as a tempting target for robbery.

[Dakka]

Wait, wait wait.  AK-97 knock offs?  AK's are like the cheapest gun you can get.  Trying to pass an AK-97 as an Ares Alpha knock off I could see maybe, but trying to make an AK-97 knockoff isn't going to result in anyone making any money 

[Glyph]

AK-97's are cheap, but also supposed to be extremely reliable.  I could see an operation turning out slipshod versions to squeeze even more profit out of them.

[Dakka]

The reason for its extreme reliability is simplicity of design.  Less moving parts, less parts to break.  They literally don't come any cheaper (while still functioning).  If you get sold some AK-97s that break down in the middle of your run then I know one fence who is going to have to negotiate his way out of a beating.

[Bradd]

@Dakka: You had it close. Here's the rule I actually use.

If you succeed at the fencing extended test in a single roll, you can use the net hits to increase sale price. Each net increases the sale price by 5%, up to a maximum of 50%. (The bonus is relative to the sale price, not the list price, so it goes 30%, 31.5%, 33%, ... 45%. Not 30%, 35%, 40%, 45%, 50%.)

[Nomad Zophiel]

Shadowrunners are penalized for selling stuff because they are usually trying to unload stolen goods in a hurry and off the books.  They are penalized for buying stuff because they want rare and/or illegal stuff, sometimes in a hurry, and usually off the books.

I generally agree with the concept here. If the team has a really good Face, though, he can essentially function as their personal Fixer between games. In fact going through a Connection 5 Fixer can be a penalty for a really good Face. So taken as given that the Face is capable of performing as a Fixer (ie has the skills and contacts), it seems like he should be able to get better deals. If you need that Panther NOW, of course its going to come dear. If you have the time and the contacts to wait for another runner team's Sammie to die and buy his off the next of kin, though, that's a different matter. Same thing for selling. If you have to get that Panther off your hands TODAY, you'll take what you can get. If it can sit in the closet for a few weeks, though, you can get a real bidding war going. In the grand scheme of things its probably not a big deal but to me those sort of negotiations are interesting as a way to introduce new NPC's, build up webs of favors etc. Getting a discount on something that fell off the truck or having the only one of something extra rare on the streets provides a nice background that makes the whole experience more real, at least to me. Every Black Market transaction can be a story in its own right depending on the interest level of those involved.

(Obviously, I play a Social Adept who works as the party Face so I'm looking for ways to expand my role while the Hackers are writing programs, the Mages are going through their Initiation and the Riggers are modding their drones)

[Glyph]

Most faces will have the skills - where they will bog down is the contacts.  Either you need a big outlay of build points allocated to contacts at char-gen, or you need to spend some time in-game developing a web of people who can acquire things for you, or wish to purchase things from you.  And fixers, arms dealers, and such won't help you - all they are is middle men, which is exactly what a face acting as a fixer wants to cut out.  So you need to know gang leaders, smugglers, metroplex guard quartermasters, Tir nobles, and so on.

[Nomad Zophiel]

Most faces will have the skills - where they will bog down is the contacts.  Either you need a big outlay of build points allocated to contacts at char-gen, or you need to spend some time in-game developing a web of people who can acquire things for you, or wish to purchase things from you.  And fixers, arms dealers, and such won't help you - all they are is middle men, which is exactly what a face acting as a fixer wants to cut out.  So you need to know gang leaders, smugglers, metroplex guard quartermasters, Tir nobles, and so on.

53 BP worth of contacts coming out of the gate. Now that you mention it, though, making new contacts sounds like a good thing to be doing in downtime.

[LonePaladin]

I've always applied the Rule of Three to any black-market operations. Specifically: "You can get it fast, cheap, and in good condition. Pick two."

The Availability rules actually do a good job of reflecting this.