[The_Gun_Nut]

I first ran into this concept with Cyberpunk 2020.  Fun game, a lot of good ideas got mined for my Shadowrun games.

The core concept is that too much 'ware can cause psychological detachment from the rest of metahumanity.  So much so sometimes that a psychotic break can happen and the individual, now nigh unstoppable to the general public, can go on a rampage, completely withdraw from the world, or become so cold as to be unrecognizable as a person.  This is especially true for cyberzombies, but they have expensive therapists and technology keeping them in check.

But even the less extreme modifications have been known to cause this condition.  Essence loss is related to it, but only loosely.  It's more that the 'ware causes them to stop viewing themselves as part of the human race, and virtually any amount of augmentation could cause that.

So, have you ever used cyberpsychosis in your game?  If so, how much did it affect the game?

[raggedhalo]

We run with the optional "Developing Cyberpsychosis" rule from Augmentation and I like that it creates some psychological distance between heavily chromed characters and, y'know, real people.

[topcat]

In a lot of games, if you looked at the behavior of the characters, you might think they ALL have cyberpsychosis.  Shadowrunners tend to be violent criminals by default and associate with less-than-upstanding people who encourage such behavior with cash prizes.  Many have killed and have no qualms about killing in the future.  They act with little or no concern for the morality or ramifications of their actions.  That said, actual cyberpsychosis itself has been pretty rare in those games.  It was something I didn't really think about outside of cyberzombies until I picked up 4th edition, which was pretty recently, and we never had cyberzombie players (they were a very rare NPC treat).

Unnecessary, but sure to come up caveat: I am not talking about every single game or character in every single game of SR.  I am merely talking from my own experience or those disclosed by others and about the majority of those characters and games.

Any appropriate character could pick up the Cyberpsychosis quality if they want and that will have the appropriate impact.  The developing cyberpsychosis rules are an option, but I'd be more comfortable just giving the players RP information on occasion (exactly how occasional depending on essence) and letting them work with it.  Things like "Meatshield has been staring at that same ARO for a few minutes now" or "Deadshot, you didn't hear a word of what was going on in the meet.  You're not sure why."  Nothing damaging, nothing too often, just something to remind them of the cost of going further.

[The_Gun_Nut]

I always liked Cyberpunk 2020's slide down to monsterhood.  It's not that they disconnect from reality, it's that they lose concern for other people and their feelings.  Soon, it grows into agitation and annoyance at others inability to deal with their own lives as well as the cybered up character.  Eventually, without treatment, it could lead to either complete abandonment of human concerns, or total outrage at the squishy meat puppets walking around getting in their way.

[Digital_Viking]

Would you all consider a character with 1 essence and change to be skirting the edge of cyberpsychosis and disconnect?

[The_Gun_Nut]

It depends.  Some people can handle the psychological effects of becoming "more than human" better than others.  I don't think a hard rule using Essence is entirely adequate.  Sure, it does, at the really low end, show that the person's spirit is starting to lose its grip on the body, but that doesn't mean that that person didn't show signs of CP well before hand.

I think that some people can't handle even a few tenths Essence missing.  Those would likely show symptoms of depression or lethargy rather than murderous intent.  Whereas some sammies may be able to drop to .05 Essence and still maintain a (somewhat) normal social life.

To my mind, that is something that needs to be worked out with the player beforehand.

[FastJack]

I'd also make sure to figure in the quality of the 'ware as well. A sammie buying off the rack cyberware (used Alpha, for instance) and is low on essence maybe closer to cyberpsychosis than the Tir Paladin with tailored 'ware.

[Loki]

"total outrage at the squishy meat puppets walking around getting in their way."

I have that without cyberware.

[Morg]

On the Fluff side of things the reason that the cyberware is attached to your body and the type of counseling you get would affect the psychological make up of the individual i.e lets take a simple cyberskull and attach it to different theoretical people with different theoretical reasons

1 a mage with 6 essence and a hate on for ware is dieing from multiple skull fractures, magical healing failed. the street doc saves him by holding the skull together with a cyberskull ... would this mage likely get cyberpsychosis

2 a child with 3 essence because of treatment drugs to fight Lobstein syndrome (osteogenesis imperfecta aka brittle bone disease) is getting a cyberskull to improve their overall quality of life and for 6 months before and after the surgery receives psychological counseling...would this child likely get cyberpsychosis

3 a ganger with 4 essence because of a jazz habit is being pressured get a sculpted cyberskulls to fit in with his gang that have had the same operation as a point of pride, he has an entire peer group to support him after the change...would this ganger likely get cyberpsychosis

4 a razor boy with an essence 3 has a dream to be the ultimate urban brawl champion. In order catch the attention of a professional urban brawl team he feels the need for some obvious chrome and decides to run down to his street doc to get a cyberskull...would this razor boy likely get cyberpsychosis

5 a street samurai with an essence 2 decides that he needs a little extra protection on his runs from now on and decides to get a cyberskull already has 2 obvious cyberlimbs so he tells him self "it wont make much difference to everyone else" after the surgery everyone he meets gives him frightened stares and his girl friend tells him that he seems cold and there words and glances are starting to get to him...would this street samurai likely get cyberpsychosis

Cyberpsychosis is story driven to the extreme I have often used it as a horror element in my games

[Glyph]

The way I see it is that the player can take a number of different negative qualities if he wants to suffer some detrimental effects from his 'ware such as degenerative neurological conditions, cyberpsychosis, etc.  And there are plenty of ways that the player can roleplay the character's reactions to his 'ware.

But cyberpsychosis rules seem, to me, like the GM bigfooting your character.  And it's annoyingly simplistic - too much 'ware, and blammo!  You go psycho!  I prefer letting the player choose how well-adjusted his character will be (or won't be) to his 'ware.

[The_Gun_Nut]

That's why I recommend GM's working with the players on this issue.  The player doesn't have to play as a psycho if he doesn't want to (although, given the nature of shadowrunning, it would be hard to argue that they haven't been doing so, even a little).

[theKernel]

I feel like it all depends on the story that the character has and the role they play in the group. If they're a street sam who uses cyberware because its part of their job then i doubt it. But if they started using it just to power game and they did it like some people irl use plastic surgery then the gm should force cyberpsychosis. 

[Coldbringer]

I have always used cyber-psychosis as more  of an RP thing than a true rules issue.  If you are looking for more crunch you could have a will + cha test with the threshold being Tue amount of essence lost on the procedure, or if you wanna be viscous the threshold is total essence lost. with degrees of success determining how severe the psychosis is.

[Charybdis]

It's more of a role-playing issue with us, than a mechanical one.

The most cybered street-sam in the group still has over 2.0 essence left (not sure the exact number) as he's saving up for more bio/cyber in the long-run (and spent more BP on Skills and Attributes to start, than a full body of metal).

However, each time he plugs some more stuff in, he plays out a couple of runs with twitches and blames bad dice rolls on getting used to the new implants, so it's just a good laugh for the group whenever he gets an upgrade.