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The Tarrasque (Light machine Gun)

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Mason

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« Reply #15 on: (02:32:50/07-22-12) »
sorry but lmg is not cal it is kg&g IRL and a gun that need a giro to shoot is not light i know it is Q&M but that the way the i lernd .lmg you carry by hand and strap, mmg you need at last two to carry and shoot, hmg is moved by car and so on . no offence ment

I'm not totally sure I read that correctly, but I think you are inferring that the GE Vindicator (and by extension this gun) requires a gyro mount to use? It does not, by the rules. It merely stabilizes the gun and makes you have more recoil compensation (6 more RC, IIRC).

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #16 on: (02:34:13/07-22-12) »
sorry but lmg is not cal it is kg&g IRL and a gun that need a giro to shoot is not light i know it is Q&M but that the way the i lernd .lmg you carry by hand and strap, mmg you need at last two to carry and shoot, hmg is moved by car and so on . no offence ment

I'm not totally sure I read that correctly, but I think you are inferring that the GE Vindicator (and by extension this gun) requires a gyro mount to use? It does not, by the rules. It merely stabilizes the gun and makes you have more recoil compensation (6 more RC, IIRC).

Well, this one would technically require a gyro mount, but that's because I imagine it's pretty much welded on.
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redwolf

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« Reply #17 on: (02:50:16/07-22-12) »
sorry but lmg is not cal it is kg&g IRL and a gun that need a giro to shoot is not light i know it is Q&M but that the way the i lernd .lmg you carry by hand and strap, mmg you need at last two to carry and shoot, hmg is moved by car and so on . no offence ment

I'm not totally sure I read that correctly, but I think you are inferring that the GE Vindicator (and by extension this gun) requires a gyro mount to use? It does not, by the rules. It merely stabilizes the gun and makes you have more recoil compensation (6 more RC, IIRC).
like i said  it is a Q&M so lets not go there
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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #18 on: (03:17:51/07-22-12) »
sorry but lmg is not cal it is kg&g IRL and a gun that need a giro to shoot is not light i know it is Q&M but that the way the i lernd .lmg you carry by hand and strap, mmg you need at last two to carry and shoot, hmg is moved by car and so on . no offence ment

Er. I think I can make out what you're trying to say. I have to say your typing is difficult to read.

Real life definitions of "LMG", "MMG", and "HMG" are actually not clearly established. Different countries and different manufacturers have different takes on what classification any given machinegun is. Some don't even use the terms "light", "medium", or "heavy", preferring other nomenclature like "general purpose".

However, Shadowrun DOES have specific ideas on how it classifies machineguns. And that is largely by how much damage each one does, not by their weight or ease of carrying.

There is a little fuzziness between guns, but most of the LMGs do 6P damage, the same as assault rifles, most MMGs do 6P to 7P damage, about what battle rifles do, and HMGs do 7P to 9P damage, about the same as sniper rifles to the heavy "anti-material" class rifles.

Shadowrun does not use calibers, mostly, but if we are classifying machineguns by damage code, the equivalent real-life weapon "light" seems to be about equivalent to 5.56x45 or similar, "medium" is probably 7.62×51, and "heavy" is probably 12.7×99 (.50 cal) up to 20mm calibers.

The non-minigun real life equivalent of the Shadowrun LMG is the M246 SAW. MMGs are likely the M-60 or similar. HMG is the old .50 caliber Ma Deuce.

Shadowrun calls the Vindicator a Light Machine Gun. It is modeled after the real-life XM-214 Six-Pak "microgun" developed by General Electric. The XM-214 fires a 5.56x45mm round.

Which, hey, is more or less the same size ammo fired by the M16 assault rifle.

If we were to stat out the M134 Minigun, it would probably be classified as a MMG under Shadowrun standards.


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« Last Edit: (03:34:30/07-22-12) by KarmaInferno »

TheNarrator

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« Reply #19 on: (03:25:45/07-22-12) »
Shadowrun generally classifies weapons by the ammunition used, so the Vindicator minigun using LMG ammo (5.56x45mm NATO or equivalent) gets grouped with the LMGs even though such a weapon would be impractical to use as an LMG (i.e., as a support weapon that an individual soldier can use on the move) due to the sheer recoil, weight, quantity of ammo consumed and power requirements of Gatling-style weapons.

Then again, the superhuman strength and mass available to augmented or metahuman shooters and use of man-portable gyromounts in the Shadowrun setting apparently makes the use of a minigun by an individual soldier possible. Still, the Vindicator is probably not classified as an LMG by people in the setting, just by the rules of the game system, due to the kind of round it fires.

...Did they really neglect to say anywhere in the rules that barrel accessories for miniguns have to be paid for six times over because they have six barrels? I'd have thought that would be important to note.

JustADude

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« Reply #20 on: (04:02:20/07-22-12) »
If we were to stat out the M134 Minigun, it would probably be classified as a MMG under Shadowrun standards.

The German version of Arsenal added the Ruhrmetall R506 "Balmung", which is a MMG using Gatling rules.

DV = 6P, AP = -2, Mode = FA* (duh), RC = 1, Ammo = 40(box) or belt, Avail = 18F, Price = 11,000¥
« Last Edit: (04:04:32/07-22-12) by JustADude »
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DarkLloyd

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« Reply #21 on: (09:51:50/07-22-12) »
Yes to all of you on the "Diamond Dart" thing. It's just armor piercing Flechette from War with this company's brand name on it. Much like how each of  the vehicles have a blurb on all the different brand name for the same item.
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Tsuzua

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« Reply #22 on: (12:33:39/07-22-12) »
Thank you Tsuzua. To try and answer your questions:

1. The gyro mount was integrated to compensate for the massive recoil penalty this thing has, and as a marketing ploy. That, theoretically, gives it a leg up on the Vindicator that basically has to be vehicle mounted to be of any real use to anyone. But it is also one of the flaws of this gun. you can't just pull this thing out and wail on some gangers, you have to take the time to get into the harness. Which takes 5 minutes.....You have to Plan to use this.

2. The ammo box is there to hold the belted ammo and "self contain" it in the gun, so a back pack isn't needed to hold the belted ammo like it normally is.

3. And, No. I pictured the electronic firing parts to be able to negate that particular flaw. I would like input from others on this, but I was thinking that would eliminate the spool up. Annnd it looks like I forgot to add that part in to the description like I was going to. I wrote these over multiple breaks at work and was short on space on the page so I may have just over looked that part.
Yeah when it comes to the gyromount and ammo bin, that's just a preference thing.  I would point out that when you're carrying a minigun, you're planning on using it (or that the threat of using it is enough) regardless of the mount or not.

As for the no-spin up, that makes it a much more useful weapon than the Vindicator.  However, I think it's warranted.  The reason is that the Vindicator isn't as useful due to having to wait for it to spin up*.  Here it's just make sure it's ready and then fire. 

Since it's a LMG, you can put it on a normal weapon mount.  I can see wanting to put this on a security drone after you cut off the gyromount harass.  Since drones don't have to worry about recoil normally, this is a good weapon to put on a Doberman.  No spin up means that a rigger can just go straight to firing once given the order to fire.

*- Actually you might be able to walk around with a spinning Vindicator.  Ask your GM.

Reaver

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« Reply #23 on: (17:15:44/07-22-12) »
Thank you Tsuzua. To try and answer your questions:

1. The gyro mount was integrated to compensate for the massive recoil penalty this thing has, and as a marketing ploy. That, theoretically, gives it a leg up on the Vindicator that basically has to be vehicle mounted to be of any real use to anyone. But it is also one of the flaws of this gun. you can't just pull this thing out and wail on some gangers, you have to take the time to get into the harness. Which takes 5 minutes.....You have to Plan to use this.

2. The ammo box is there to hold the belted ammo and "self contain" it in the gun, so a back pack isn't needed to hold the belted ammo like it normally is.

3. And, No. I pictured the electronic firing parts to be able to negate that particular flaw. I would like input from others on this, but I was thinking that would eliminate the spool up. Annnd it looks like I forgot to add that part in to the description like I was going to. I wrote these over multiple breaks at work and was short on space on the page so I may have just over looked that part.
Yeah when it comes to the gyromount and ammo bin, that's just a preference thing.  I would point out that when you're carrying a minigun, you're planning on using it (or that the threat of using it is enough) regardless of the mount or not.

As for the no-spin up, that makes it a much more useful weapon than the Vindicator.  However, I think it's warranted.  The reason is that the Vindicator isn't as useful due to having to wait for it to spin up*.  Here it's just make sure it's ready and then fire. 

Since it's a LMG, you can put it on a normal weapon mount.  I can see wanting to put this on a security drone after you cut off the gyromount harass.  Since drones don't have to worry about recoil normally, this is a good weapon to put on a Doberman.  No spin up means that a rigger can just go straight to firing once given the order to fire.

*- Actually you might be able to walk around with a spinning Vindicator.  Ask your GM.

I have allowed players to pre spin the vindicator (mentions a battery life of 15 minutes I think)... But they have a hard time finding targets when they do :(. Couldn't be in any way related to that special 'distinctive' sound, could it? :)
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JustADude

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« Reply #24 on: (02:25:13/07-23-12) »
I have allowed players to pre spin the vindicator (mentions a battery life of 15 minutes I think)... But they have a hard time finding targets when they do :(. Couldn't be in any way related to that special 'distinctive' sound, could it? :)

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« Last Edit: (02:27:16/07-23-12) by JustADude »
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« Reply #25 on: (13:38:03/07-23-12) »
WHO TOUCHED SASHA???
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DarkLloyd

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« Reply #26 on: (09:56:46/07-24-12) »
Edits are up for this one.

Thank you all for helping out with this.
Also for those of you that thought this would need Hi Power chambering, if that is house ruled as a "Modifier" to ammo instead of an ammo type, as is being talked about in these forums, then Yes I would have added it in. But if you do you need to make this gun not able to accept any other mods at all.
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