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Adrenaline Surge and problematic play

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sehmerus

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« Reply #30 on: (22:11:42/09-15-11) »
Victor Mortimer  (street name Vic)
Player: Dave
Metatype: Human; Male; Age: 30; Height: 1.76m; Weight: 78kg;
Hair: Brown; Eyes: brown; Skin: tan
Total Karma: 94; Current Karma: 3; Street Cred: 9; Notoriety: 1;
Public Awareness: 3
Attributes
Body. . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Agility . . . . . . . . . . . .6
Reaction . . . . . . . .4/6
Strength . . . . . . . . . .2
Charisma. . . . . . . . . .2
Intuition. . . . . . . . . . .4
Logic . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Willpower . . . . . . . . .4
Initiate Grade . . . . .1
Edge . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
Essence . . . . . . . . . .6
Magic . . . . . . . . . . . .6
Initiative . . . . . . .8/10
Initiative Passes .1/3

Active Skills
12 Blades 6 (Agi) (swords +2)
5 Con* (Cha)
5 Disguise* (Int)
5 Etiquette* (Cha)
9 Exotic Ranged Weapon: Laser 3 (Agi)
7 Infiltration* (Agi)
5 Leadership* (Cha)
5 Negotiation* (Cha)
7 Palming* (Agi)
8 Pilot Aircraft 2 (Rea) (rotary wing +2)
8 Pilot Ground Craft 2 (Rea) (Bike +2)
14 Pistols 8 (Agi) (machine pistols +2)
5 Shadowing* (Int)
* Influence Group 3
* Stealth Group 1

Knowledge Skills
7 Black Market 3 (Int)
3 Corporate Wars 1 (Log)
6 Crook Hangouts 2 (Int)
4 Japanese Polotics 2 (Log)
4 LoneStar Procedures 2 (Log)
6 Mafia 2 (Int)
3 Magic Background 1 (Log)
4 Military 2 (Log)
4 Security Design 2 (Log)
4 Security Procedures 2 (Log)
6 Street Gangs 2 (Int)
7 Yakuza 3 (Int)
Language Skills
N English
6 Japanese 2
7 Russian 3

Positive Qualities
Adept
Adrenaline surge
Ambidexterous
Negative Qualities
distinctive style
Incompetent: Archery
Sensitive System


Adept Powers
Attribute Boost (4): Agility
Improved Ability (2): Pistols
Improved Reflexes (2)
Mystic Armor (3)
initiate Metamagic Powers
Adept Centering

Weapons of choice,  Ares Predator IV Modified with ceramic parts,  Gas vent, and Full auto Selector w/ extended clips (x2)  mostly loaded with S&S (really haven't used Full auto selector since i got the redlines) the group decided that S&S could not be shot full auto (which is OK because that would get expensive REAL FAST)
for lethality i now have a pair of Redlines and recently acquired a power pack for them. both redlines and power pack were special gifts in certain missions, most notably the finale of New york

Other than life style the only thing i purchased for my character is the modified pistols, and his Helicopter. (wich i saved up from for almost 2 full season to finally get)

Hope to save up now to give him magic 7 wich will give him ascensing, and also get him a Weapon foci (sword) so he can be a threat in the astral as much as he is in real world)

« Last Edit: (22:16:49/09-15-11) by sehmerus »

JoeNapalm

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« Reply #31 on: (11:02:06/09-16-11) »

The character is not the problem, here.

If one character on the team is wiping the board in a single pass, the GM has not properly scaled his encounters.

Someone in the party will always be the fastest. Maybe not all the time, but most of the time. If one guy is taking out all the bad guys in his first pass with enough frequency to be perceived as a problem, the GM needs to evaluate his roster of foes and his tactics.

-Jn-
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sehmerus

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« Reply #32 on: (11:42:11/09-16-11) »
My character doesnt "wipe the board"  but USUALLY by the time round two (not pass 2) my character has taken out the top threat, leaving the "goons" that are left over for the rest of the team to take out'

the particular mission we were playing that got Tekky to post, had SO MANY Variables that put the play "outta wack"  but we all rolled with it.

1- We were playing TABLE RATING 4, with 8players  (we had 2 visiting players from another country who were in town for Gencon)
2- one of the visiting characters had also an impresive Gunslinger specialist (dont remember if he was cyber or adept) all i remember is he was rolling as many dice as me and doing more damage (full auto)
3- I never rolled anything less than 8 hits in combat. my dice were Magical that day.
4- the mission was designed with alot of "single monster" combat
5- Tekky always had a bad initiative roll, whatever was left after i took my turn, the other adept would finish off. so Tekky never really had a chance to shoot anything because it was always dead by his ini turn.
  (sidenote  had i known this was a concern i would have just delayed and gave him a chance, but with 8 players its hard to notice one player when everyone else is over scrambling my attention span im glad we dont play 8 players except this special situation once a year)
6- i think the GM mis counted a few dodge or attack rolls to the tables favor, weather intentional or due to keeping focused on a 8 PLAYER table i'm not sure. (tho she's A really Good GM and so im inclined to the she was BEING NICE that day with alot of the rolls and rules because of our visiting Friends)



i think one big flaw i have seen so far, is ALOT of the bad guys are generic and use stat blocks from the book (or worse when they use the sample premade characters in the core book)  but over the last couple missions i notice that MOST of the bad guys (even at rating 4-6) Dont have initiative passes greater than 1 ( i did recently get knocked out by a StreetSam who had 3 passes, but the other guys finished him and was able to revive me)  to me it seems like there should be at least 1 character who has 3 passes in every bad guy mob.  other wise my character can get 12 shots before they can return fire, (thats doing 3 passes of 2 hand pistols doing Double tap SA shots) (not even counting the Full Auto machine pistols i could use)


is there a DM option to spend karma to gain an initiative pass? i could see this being used can be a big threat (if there is a rule for it)


Critias

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« Reply #33 on: (12:38:02/09-16-11) »
i think one big flaw i have seen so far, is ALOT of the bad guys are generic and use stat blocks from the book (or worse when they use the sample premade characters in the core book)  but over the last couple missions i notice that MOST of the bad guys (even at rating 4-6) Dont have initiative passes greater than 1 ( i did recently get knocked out by a StreetSam who had 3 passes, but the other guys finished him and was able to revive me)  to me it seems like there should be at least 1 character who has 3 passes in every bad guy mob.
There are options right there in the Missions (or at least there should be) for a GM to ramp up the difficulty.  In my admittedly limited experience, most Missions are written to be easy, with options included to make them more difficult (my own, for instance, were written that way, based on the principle that it's easier for an experienced GM with experienced players to ramp up difficulty, than it is for a new GM with new players to try and ramp down difficulty).

It's trivially easy for most NPCs to be given additional initiative passes, by a GM who looks at the NPCs before the game starts, looks at his PCs character sheets, and decides to bump them up a notch or two.  And, in fact, GMs are told to do so, in order to customize the difficulty of their Mission to meet their game.

However...
Quote
other wise my character can get 12 shots before they can return fire, (thats doing 3 passes of 2 hand pistols doing Double tap SA shots) (not even counting the Full Auto machine pistols i could use)
I think maybe you guys are misunderstanding initiative passes or something.  How is it that your guy is getting all 3 of his passes before the opposition can return fire?

In SR4, everyone takes their first pass (in initiative order, highest to lowest).  Everyone.  Then, those who have survived and have a second pass, take their second pass (again in initiative order).  Then, those who have survived and have a third...and finally, anyone who might have a fourth.

You shouldn't be getting three passes of shooting before bad guys get to respond.

sehmerus

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« Reply #34 on: (13:46:45/09-16-11) »
Sorry forgot to clarify, They Do respond but usually (not always) they have to do a full Dodge to deal with my dice pool. and if they have 1 pass they just used thier action to dodge.

So yea sometimes the 1 pass bad guys will shoot at me in the pass#1,  usually with alot of damage modifiers from my "adrenaline surge" granted first turn but they BETTER hit me cuz if they dont Im throwing bullets at them for 2 more passes.


I will say facing the Street sam last sunday who got me good, was a wonderfull change of pace. I took out the mage and another grunt but the sami came outa no were and trumped my distinctive style like i was a freshman sitting at the Senior table. thankfully he was properly disposed of by the rest of the team.

the one thing i dont understand about Initiative passes is when driving, It doesnt seem right that because i get 3 ini passes and my bike can go 200 MPH, and another person with 1 pass can go 200mph, why i get to move 3x and he only once (result in me going further)  it seems it should be limited to the vehicle by a ROUND limit to make more sense to me.
« Last Edit: (13:50:55/09-16-11) by sehmerus »

wylie

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« Reply #35 on: (17:01:33/09-16-11) »
i have noticed in Season 4 missions that some of the NPCs are gettign tougher

3 Edge for a baddie can get wild, and several players wounded

Teknodragon

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« Reply #36 on: (03:39:31/09-17-11) »
Erk, should have made this reply a while back: Things have been worked out, and I've accepted that the problem worked out to be a mix of my frustration, combined with a very large table. The issue with Adrenaline Surge itself was resolved for me in the first few replies others made-- that is, not a widespread problem.

Given my habit of building SR characters when bored or trying out a concept, I should pass a few of those sheets on to the GM, or build some equivalent in power to Red Samurai, or corpsec, or gangers.

Last, Someone needs to write a mission or adventure revolving around the PCs being hired to find out why the Red Samurai have infiltrated just about every other corp's security teams...
Life is short, the night is long, and we still have ammo.

Phylos Fett

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« Reply #37 on: (04:30:24/09-17-11) »
My character doesnt "wipe the board"  but USUALLY by the time round two (not pass 2) my character has taken out the top threat, leaving the "goons" that are left over for the rest of the team to take out'

Just a quick question - how do you know which NPC is the top threat? I mean, it's not like the NPCs have little names floating over their heads so you know which one is important ;)

Medicineman

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« Reply #38 on: (05:40:30/09-17-11) »
My character doesnt "wipe the board"  but USUALLY by the time round two (not pass 2) my character has taken out the top threat, leaving the "goons" that are left over for the rest of the team to take out'

Just a quick question - how do you know which NPC is the top threat? I mean, it's not like the NPCs have little names floating over their heads so you know which one is important ;)

You don't play with AR Help, Do You  ;D

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Phylos Fett

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« Reply #39 on: (05:48:16/09-17-11) »
My character doesnt "wipe the board"  but USUALLY by the time round two (not pass 2) my character has taken out the top threat, leaving the "goons" that are left over for the rest of the team to take out'

Just a quick question - how do you know which NPC is the top threat? I mean, it's not like the NPCs have little names floating over their heads so you know which one is important ;)

You don't play with AR Help, Do You  ;D

with an augmented Dance
Medicineman

Nah, I never took that Positive Quality for any of my characters - couldn't justify the BP cost :P

sehmerus

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« Reply #40 on: (08:43:30/09-17-11) »
BIggest threat, well I ask the team who they want me to kill first. if no one answers then i blast the awakened.  tho that didnt do me any good last week cuz the street sam subdued me after i took out the awakened, tho when the awaken whent down his spirit ran away so maybe it was still good choice