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(SR5) Viable start? Mysad with Focused Concentration

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TK421

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« on: (01:11:59/05-02-19) »
So, this is really more of a conceptual question.  I was wondering about the viability of (I should point out that this idea is not my own, but I do not remember where I first read the concept) of using the Increased Attrib spell with the caster's own Focused Concentration to sustain it rather than using Sustain Foci.  Moreover, using two instances of the spell to sustain the relevant Attribute based on the situation (i.e. combat = Intuition, social = Charisma).  Is this far too much of a Karma spend at chargen (even though it seems dead useful)?

I should point out again that the example below is FAR from a complete build - just some thoughts put down in Hero Labs...

Priority Buy - High Life
Magic - A - Mystic Adept
Skills - A
Attributes - B
Metatype - C - Elf
Resources - C

Karma Spend is all in PP and Focused Concentration (with -25 NQ to follow if I continue with this)

Unnamed Hero
METATYPE: ELF
B 3
A 4
R 3/6
S 2
W 6
L 3
I 5
C 5
ESS 6
EDG 3
M 6
Condition Monitor (P/S): 10 / 11
Armor: 0
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 6, Social 8
Physical Initiative: 8/11+4D6

Active Skills:
Counterspelling (Combat Spells +2) 6
Pistols (Semi-Automatics +2) 6
Spellcasting (Illusion Spells +2, Manipulation Spells +2) 6

Metatype Abilities: Enhanced Senses: Low-Light Vision
Qualities: Chaos Mystic Adept, Focused Concentration (5)
Spells:
Alter Memory
Ball Lightning
Heal
Improved Invisibility
Increase Charisma
Increase Intuition
Influence
Levitate
Physical Mask
Stunbolt

Adept Powers: Astral Perception
Attribute Boost (1): Agility (7dicepool)
Combat Sense (2)
Improved Reflexes (3)
Improved Sense: Vision Magnification

Starting : 5,000 + (1D6 20)
Ammunition & Resources:
   Edge Pool - 0/3
« Last Edit: (12:57:19/05-02-19) by TK421 »

Beta

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« Reply #1 on: (10:28:05/05-02-19) »
looks like you are building with sum to 14?  In that environment it may well be viable, because you have enough attribute and skill points to go around, and assuming your table allows In Debt you can get by with resources E.  One thought is that your attributes are not really taking advantage of being an elf, so that isn't really needed.
Jawsey  --
speechthought

easl

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« Reply #2 on: (11:23:40/05-02-19) »
Just because the "enchanter" thread is on my mind, if you're looking to make a mage that runs around multiply-buffed, an alchemist might be a way to go. Write your 'improve X' spells as a preparation on rice paper with a contact trigger, bake in fortune cookie. When the action starts, eat fortune cookie and buff out for [Potency] minutes with no sustainment penalties.



TK421

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« Reply #3 on: (12:42:59/05-02-19) »
Apologies, I should have added in a bit more detail.  I didn't go with PotW or Shaman on purpose.  Chaos magic seemed to be a bit more interesting flavor-wise, which is why I didn't immediately hop on one of the Charisma traditions.

Elf as a race has been chosen and can't be changed, regardless of "archetype" (awakened/cyber/other).

For some unknown, but likely crunchy reason, Attrib B has always made me twitch, which is one of the reasons I started looking down the path of sustain Increase w/out taking a spot in my Foci pool that could be used for Power or Qi foci (might purchase a couple of these un-bonded (along with a safe to keep them in until I get some additional Karma...).

I never really intended this build to sustain multiple increases (spells) at the same time.  It would be one Attribute or the other as needed, with an occasional buff to Intuition to boost drain resistance before casting a different (sustain required) spell.  From what I can tell, I can take the -2 for a turn (FC handles sustain on Intuition and normal penalty on second spell) until I end the sustain on Intuition and sustain the single ancillary cast as needed (single spell now via FC).

I suppose I was just looking for someone to say "holy cr*p!  None of this works the way you think it does and you're making an awful decision" or "Huh, that could work for this setup".  I'll take anything in between of course, lol.

Tecumseh

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« Reply #4 on: (18:06:18/05-02-19) »
Skills A vs. Attributes A depends on your table and how much of a role you're trying to fill. From previous posts, TK421 is in a two-man game, so diverse skills might be more important, especially if the idea is to supplement attributes with Increased Attribute spells.

However, the more efficient way to go about this for a Mystic Adept is the Heightened Concentration power from Shadow Spells. Long story short, 0.5 PP to ignore one modifier up to -3 (assuming Magic 6). If you're uninjured, and not under heavy environmental modifiers, that can be a sustained spell. It's a great power, probably too great, and it's easily worth giving up one rank of Combat Sense.

If you go that route instead of Focused Concentration, it potentially frees up karma to invest in other things, like qualities, or Strength 2 so that you can move an attribute point somewhere else, like Agility or Charisma.

TK421

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« Reply #5 on: (19:28:28/05-02-19) »
Thanks for the information and for catching my other post. I'm kind of all over the place with character concept and build ideas. Yes, two man team and I was going Skills A for that reason.

Good information on Heightened Concern. I only have the verbiage in Hero Labs, so when I saw it, I assumed it couldn't be as good as it looked. I was also a little worried about action economy as it states it takes a Complex to activate. I assume from Tecumseh's note that once activated against a negative condition that it stays "on" through the existence of that condition, which is, as he says, a great power.

I might be able to use that Karma for Foci as well. I'll have to check my resources but given I don't have to worry about restricted gear (High Life), I could throw a nice Power Focus in the mix rather easily I think.

I'll post a more complete build later on tonight. I'll likely follow up on the regular Adept as well. Thanks again!!

One last thing, assuming I keep priorities and things as is and will use both attribute spells, how do the remainder of those spell choices look? I'm looking at potentially having to Face a bit, maybe some infiltration and retain the ability to lay a little smack down, which is what led me down the primrose path of the Mystic Adept...

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #6 on: (00:28:30/05-03-19) »
The main thing about Heightened Concentration (frag that typo) is that it's just 1 specific penalty, so you couldn't e.g. use Psyche and cover 3 spells with it. But eliminating a single penalty is fine, and if you ever get shot up bad you could switch it to that. Or turn it on when you're caught in bad weather, etc.
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

TK421

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« Reply #7 on: (00:58:44/05-03-19) »
I was wondering because Heightened Concern doesn't make much sense, lol.  Well, I thought I had a legitimate use for Exceptional Attribute Magic - at least that's where I was heading as it would up the negated penalty from Heightened Concentration to a -4 (2 sustained spells simultaneously).  Still and all, removing Focused Concentration 5 nets me 20 Karma, and adding Exceptional Attribute (Magic)  for 14 nets me an extra potential PP buy for 5 Karma, leaving 1 Karma (BP) for... contacts or knowledge.

Any reason not to do something like this? (I know it's not done yet)

Unnamed Hero
METATYPE: ELF
B 3
A 5  (figure 7 with 2 hits from Attrib Boost)
R 3/6
S 2
W 6
L 2
I 5  (potentially 9 with sustained Imp Attrib)
C 5 (potentially 9 with sustained Imp Attrib)
ESS 6
EDG 3
M 7

Drain:  11 (potentially 15 with sustained Imp Attrib)
Condition Monitor (P/S): 10 / 11
Armor: 0
Defense Pool Ranged/Melee:  14 (Possibly 18)
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 5, Social 8

Physical Initiative: 8/11+4D6

Active Skills:
Arcana 2:                                         (Pool 4)
Assensing (Aura Reading +2) 6          (Pool 11)
Automatics (Machine Pistols +2) 6      (Pool 11, possibly 13)
Con (Fast Talking +2) 6                     (Pool 11, possibly 15)
Conjuring Group 5                             (Pool 12)
Counterspelling (Combat Spells +2) 6 (Pool 13)
Influence Group 5                              (Pool 10, possibly 14)     
Locksmith (Maglock +2) 1                  (Pool 6, possibly 8 )
Palming (Legerdemain +2) 1              (Pool 6, possibly 8 )
Perception (Visual +2) 6                     (Pool 11, 13 w/contacts)
Sneaking (Urban +2) 6                       (Pool 11, possibly 13)
Spellcasting (Illusion Spells +2, Manipulation Spells +2) 6    (GM allowed 1 multi-spec) (Pool 13)

Knowledge Skills:
Languages: English 6, Sperethiel N

Metatype Abilities: Enhanced Senses: Low-Light Vision
Qualities: Chaos Mystic Adept, Exceptional Attribute: Magic
Spells: Alter Memory, Ball Lightning, Heal, Improved Invisibility, Increase Charisma, Increase Intuition, Influence, Levitate, Physical Mask, Stunbolt
Adept Powers: Astral Perception, Attribute Boost (1): Agility (8dicepool), Combat Sense (3), Heightened Concern (up to -4), Improved Reflexes (3), Improved Sense: Vision Magnification

Gear:
   Contacts (3) w/ Smartlink, Vision Enhancement (2)
   Ear buds (3) w/ Audio Enhancement (3)
   Transys Avalon w/ Increase a Matrix Attribute: Firewall
   Trode Patch w/Cover
Weapons:
   Remington Suppressor [Machine Pistol, Acc 9, DV 7P, AP -1, SA/BF, RC 3, 15 (c)] w/ Gas-Vent System (3), Gecko Grip, Improved Range Finder, Personalized Grip, Silencer/Suppressor, Smartgun System, Internal

Ammunition & Resources:
   Remington Suppressor - unloaded
   Edge Pool - 0/3
« Last Edit: (01:00:35/05-03-19) by TK421 »

Tecumseh

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« Reply #8 on: (01:13:01/05-03-19) »
If it's a two-man team then you could hardly do better than a mysad Face + a decker/rigger. That covers pretty much all of your bases, plus they each have force multipliers (magicians with their spirits and riggers with their drones). That's a two-man wrecking crew right there.

If you free up some karma, a power focus is great, especially if your chargen rules allow you to start with one at Force 3.

One thing I would strongly consider is picking up a couple extra spells. You're limited to 12 at chargen (Magic * 2) but they're only 5 karma each and they add a huge amount of utility. If you're going to be the face, consider something like Analyze Truth. (The catch is that you'll probably already be sustaining Increase Charisma.) Fashion can be hugely useful too, and doesn't require sustaining.

I would probably hardcap Intuition instead of Willpower. Intuition has more skills linked to it, plus is linked to the ever-important Initiative and Dodge rolls. Your base drain pool will be the same either way, and will be 1 point higher if you get 4 hits on your Increase Intuition casting. You'll have more drain when casting Increase Intuition at F6 instead of F5, but 3S isn't bad. Plus walking around with Intuition 10 is pretty boss.

Definitely consider a mentor spirit for extra bonuses, plus they add good flavor through their disadvantages.

Edit: Ah, you just posted a Magic 7 concept while I was writing the above. Well, a different path. Exceptional Attribute is usually an expensive trap, but the builds that can make the best case for it are Magic 7 magicians and Resonance 7 technomancers. Likely the biggest impact is the ability to conjure Force 7 spirits more easily, which are potent minions for sure. I'd still hardcap Intuition instead of Willpower. The rest of it looks pretty solid.


TK421

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« Reply #9 on: (02:38:37/05-03-19) »
I will make that change to cap Intuition - TBH, the fact I already hadn't can be chalked up to the original idea of using Focused Concentration 5.  Other than that, I think we can call this idea fully baked.  I have a pretty good handle on the armor and gear section, so I'll fill that out on my own.  For the sake of completeness, I'll post him here over the weekend (working late tomorrow and won't have a chance) with all the blanks finished up.

Spell selection was a tough one - I wanted all the things!  Analyze Truth, if not first on the next-spell-to-get list is definitely in the top three.  I'll likely have enough cash left over to pickup an unbound Power Focus 3/4 and store it somewhere safe (out of sight of my GM) while I accumulate Karma in order to avoid having to get a hold of one down the road.

I just want to say thanks one more time, to Tecumseh, to everyone that replied with ideas to both my builds, and the rest of the forum.  The wealth of information and support really is appreciated!

P.S. Tecumseh, I'll be keeping your pointers in mind for my next Adept and really, for any and all upcoming toons I might make for SR.

Tecumseh

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« Reply #10 on: (02:48:34/05-03-19) »
Enjoy the expertise while it lasts! It'll be obsolete in a few months and we'll all be starting over from scratch.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #11 on: (03:15:14/05-03-19) »
Eh, until a few books are out many people won't switch anyway. I'm just going to offer open events and wait for at least Gunpowder and Runaway to release.
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TK421

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« Reply #12 on: (09:05:19/05-03-19) »
Hah! We're what you'd normally call "late adopters", so I'll be using all this assistance for a bit yet.

Plus side is I'll be able to keep an eye out here and learn things as they come up with new releases, so I stand by what I said  :)