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Looking for a good spell to use against Drones and Vehicles (noob)

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Mirikon

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« Reply #45 on: (18:14:45/02-13-19) »
What's the rationale for why living subjects get a test to resist Levitate but Drones would not.  It's just quirk of semantics/word choice in the rule, or is there an underlying logic to Levitate's exception in allowing a resistance test on a spell that uses a (normally) unopposed success test?

Take the example of an anthropomorphic drone holding a gun, and a human holding a gun.  If enough levels of Lifelike Features were present, you potentially wouldn't even be able to tell which was which!  But if you randomly select the gun in the human's hand, the human gets to roll BOD + STR to hold on to it.  Why shouldn't the drone, if you had tried to levitate that gun instead?

The rationale is because it says that black and white in the rules?

Quote
LEVITATE
(PHYSICAL)
Type: P Range: LOS Duration: S Drain: F Ė 2
Levitate allows you to telekinetically lift a person or object and move it around. You have to beat a threshold equal to the subjectís mass divided by 200 kilograms, rounded up. The subject of the spell can be moved anywhere in your line of sight at a movement rate equal to the spellís Force in meters per Combat Turn.

If youíre trying to levitate an item held by a living being, or levitate an unwilling living being, that being can defend against the Spellcasting Test with Strength + Body. You can use this spell to levitate yourself, if you need a view from a higher perspective or desire some parachute-free sky diving.

So, actually, lifting the guy's gun out of his holster would be just the threshold test. By the text of the spell, if it isn't a living creature holding on to the thing, there's no resist roll, so no spell defense. You could make an argument for a drone with an anthropomorphic arm holding something, or a drone with jaws biting something getting a test to hold on to the item, I guess, and a reasonable DM would probably agree with you. However, that is an extremely niche ruling, that only applies to a small subset of drones under an even smaller subset of conditions.

Note that you can't use this to disarm a drone's mounted weapons, since those are usually locked in, not just resting in a holster or the like.

If you're asking for an in-game reason, then just chalk it up to the complexities of how mana interacts with living creatures, or something like that. At some point, you have to just shrug, and say, "Because that's the way it works." Especially when dealing with magic, since Magic doesn't always play by rules we mortals entirely understand.

My question with the drone would be "Is it being rigged or is it in auto mode?".
It doesn't matter. Anything installed on a drone can't be lifted off. Anything an anthro drone is holding would be in the same grey area regardless of it being rigged or dog brain. Lifting a drone with the spell is no different from lifting a car (and the people in it), except that you would need to factor in the weight of the people in the car as well as the weight of the car itself to the hits needed. Spell defense would not come into play, but dispelling could.
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« Reply #46 on: (19:00:28/02-13-19) »
I have to have a laugh at this thread, because as far as I'm concerned anyone who gets enough hits to Levitate my Roadmaster deserves to have it succeed.
After all you don't send an electrician to fix your leaking toilet.

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Mirikon

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« Reply #47 on: (20:07:15/02-13-19) »
I have to have a laugh at this thread, because as far as I'm concerned anyone who gets enough hits to Levitate my Roadmaster deserves to have it succeed.
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« Reply #48 on: (22:37:46/02-13-19) »
Artistic interpretation of a mage trying to levitate a Roadmaster:
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #49 on: (23:15:23/02-13-19) »
I have to have a laugh at this thread, because as far as I'm concerned anyone who gets enough hits to Levitate my Roadmaster deserves to have it succeed.

Yeah I said as much earlier, itís pretty much a drone issue. Even a jackrabbit would be well over a ton so 6 hits even without the people in it.  So a pretty min maxed starting mage or a lucky roll. Regular cars get up to and a bit past 2 tons so 9-10 hits and they arenít armored. Which means outside a lucky edge roll doubtful already. Non commercial trucks can hit 3+ tons. Roadmasters are on another level.

I remember some shadowtalk in a 3e? Supplement where a troll was bitching that his crew hit a convenience store and the kid there levitated their van with them in it until lone star showed up. He threatened to get the kid, and all I was thinking was if he could pull that off donít show up without an army. I suspect it was just a issue where the writer didnít do the math and thought it sounded cool to make whatever point was being made.(I think it was a anyone can be a mage style warning)

fseperent

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« Reply #50 on: (03:44:34/02-14-19) »
I would rule that any aircraft, hovercraft, or similar would be allowed an opposed test:

# of hits vs Accel

Here's my logic, those vehicles and drones apply pressure to the air around them to move.
Other vehicles or drones that need to be on the ground to move have no way real way to act against the force holding them up.
If there's no resistance test, then how can Counterspelling dice help? Or are you indeed stating that you can only Dispel a Levitate on a drone, not Counterspell it?

I should of worded it better.
That test would be when the drone tries to break free and can generate air pressure to move.
Nothing about this statement even states Counterspelling or Dispelling.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #51 on: (18:05:27/02-14-19) »
I would rule that any aircraft, hovercraft, or similar would be allowed an opposed test:

# of hits vs Accel

Here's my logic, those vehicles and drones apply pressure to the air around them to move.
Other vehicles or drones that need to be on the ground to move have no way real way to act against the force holding them up.
If there's no resistance test, then how can Counterspelling dice help? Or are you indeed stating that you can only Dispel a Levitate on a drone, not Counterspell it?

I should of worded it better.
That test would be when the drone tries to break free and can generate air pressure to move.
Nothing about this statement even states Counterspelling or Dispelling.
Okay, well if at any point you're actually going to answer the questions you received regarding Counterspelling, I'm sure someone will let me know.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #52 on: (21:34:34/02-14-19) »
I have to have a laugh at this thread, because as far as I'm concerned anyone who gets enough hits to Levitate my Roadmaster deserves to have it succeed.

Yeah I said as much earlier, itís pretty much a drone issue. Even a jackrabbit would be well over a ton so 6 hits even without the people in it.  So a pretty min maxed starting mage or a lucky roll. Regular cars get up to and a bit past 2 tons so 9-10 hits and they arenít armored. Which means outside a lucky edge roll doubtful already. Non commercial trucks can hit 3+ tons. Roadmasters are on another level.

I remember some shadowtalk in a 3e? Supplement where a troll was bitching that his crew hit a convenience store and the kid there levitated their van with them in it until lone star showed up. He threatened to get the kid, and all I was thinking was if he could pull that off donít show up without an army. I suspect it was just a issue where the writer didnít do the math and thought it sounded cool to make whatever point was being made.(I think it was a anyone can be a mage style warning)
3e still had exploding 6s on all rolls, didn't it? So there is a nonzero chance of a kid pulling it off. Of course, there's also a nonzero chance that it was a bored dragon taking a kid's shape that decided to troll (no pun intended) the mortals.
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« Reply #53 on: (23:32:56/02-14-19) »
I have to have a laugh at this thread, because as far as I'm concerned anyone who gets enough hits to Levitate my Roadmaster deserves to have it succeed.

Yeah I said as much earlier, itís pretty much a drone issue. Even a jackrabbit would be well over a ton so 6 hits even without the people in it.  So a pretty min maxed starting mage or a lucky roll. Regular cars get up to and a bit past 2 tons so 9-10 hits and they arenít armored. Which means outside a lucky edge roll doubtful already. Non commercial trucks can hit 3+ tons. Roadmasters are on another level.

I remember some shadowtalk in a 3e? Supplement where a troll was bitching that his crew hit a convenience store and the kid there levitated their van with them in it until lone star showed up. He threatened to get the kid, and all I was thinking was if he could pull that off donít show up without an army. I suspect it was just a issue where the writer didnít do the math and thought it sounded cool to make whatever point was being made.(I think it was a anyone can be a mage style warning)
3e still had exploding 6s on all rolls, didn't it? So there is a nonzero chance of a kid pulling it off. Of course, there's also a nonzero chance that it was a bored dragon taking a kid's shape that decided to troll (no pun intended) the mortals.

Yeah it was possible just like itís possible in 5e. Just comes a point where the odds are so low I donít think it makes a good story/example. The TN would have been in the mid 30s. To roll 5 6s then like a 4+in a row is pretty hard. Not win the lottery hard but 1 in 14k rare. The dice pool youíd have to have even consider trying to pull that off isnít feasible for a character. In 5e I havenít done the math but I suspect itís more likely but still require an absurd dice pool to be feasible.

fseperent

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« Reply #54 on: (02:06:08/02-15-19) »
I would rule that any aircraft, hovercraft, or similar would be allowed an opposed test:

# of hits vs Accel

Here's my logic, those vehicles and drones apply pressure to the air around them to move.
Other vehicles or drones that need to be on the ground to move have no way real way to act against the force holding them up.
If there's no resistance test, then how can Counterspelling dice help? Or are you indeed stating that you can only Dispel a Levitate on a drone, not Counterspell it?

I should of worded it better.
That test would be when the drone tries to break free and can generate air pressure to move.
Nothing about this statement even states Counterspelling or Dispelling.
Okay, well if at any point you're actually going to answer the questions you received regarding Counterspelling, I'm sure someone will let me know.

To be fair, if you said spell defence, I would of got what you asked earlier.
Yes, it would apply.

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« Reply #55 on: (04:59:03/02-15-19) »
I have to have a laugh at this thread, because as far as I'm concerned anyone who gets enough hits to Levitate my Roadmaster deserves to have it succeed.
...
I remember some shadowtalk in a 3e? Supplement where a troll was bitching that his crew hit a convenience store and the kid there levitated their van with them in it until lone star showed up. He threatened to get the kid, and all I was thinking was if he could pull that off donít show up without an army. I suspect it was just a issue where the writer didnít do the math and thought it sounded cool to make whatever point was being made.(I think it was a anyone can be a mage style warning)

Been spending some time in 3e recently and looked it up... if "some kid" floated a TROLL, it would be impressive... But a van loaded with what I assume would be a couple other Orks/trolls....

Run. Run fast. Run far. Don't look back!

A typical Troll, weighting 200kg, (about 440lbs) is a TN of 6... 2 trolls.. makes that an 8... an Ork 10... A typical cargo van, 29.

Now, since Levitate is one of the few spells in 3e that force didn't matter... (this is the scary part!), the drain is the target number +2... or in this case a 31m.

So once this "kid" lifted the van, hell even attempted to lift the van; he had to make a drain resistance test of 31 Vs a moderate wound.. and IF his magic rating wasn't a 31, that was physical damage...


But IF i remember the story right, the "punk kid" was standing there with a smirk on his face.... Not bleeding from his ears and eyes.. not dazed and wobbly..... standing there smirking...

That's Harlequin level casting. 
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« Reply #56 on: (21:34:32/02-17-19) »
I have to have a laugh at this thread, because as far as I'm concerned anyone who gets enough hits to Levitate my Roadmaster deserves to have it succeed.
...
I remember some shadowtalk in a 3e? Supplement where a troll was bitching that his crew hit a convenience store and the kid there levitated their van with them in it until lone star showed up. He threatened to get the kid, and all I was thinking was if he could pull that off donít show up without an army. I suspect it was just a issue where the writer didnít do the math and thought it sounded cool to make whatever point was being made.(I think it was a anyone can be a mage style warning)

Been spending some time in 3e recently and looked it up... if "some kid" floated a TROLL, it would be impressive... But a van loaded with what I assume would be a couple other Orks/trolls....

Run. Run fast. Run far. Don't look back!

A typical Troll, weighting 200kg, (about 440lbs) is a TN of 6... 2 trolls.. makes that an 8... an Ork 10... A typical cargo van, 29.

Now, since Levitate is one of the few spells in 3e that force didn't matter... (this is the scary part!), the drain is the target number +2... or in this case a 31m.

So once this "kid" lifted the van, hell even attempted to lift the van; he had to make a drain resistance test of 31 Vs a moderate wound.. and IF his magic rating wasn't a 31, that was physical damage...


But IF i remember the story right, the "punk kid" was standing there with a smirk on his face.... Not bleeding from his ears and eyes.. not dazed and wobbly..... standing there smirking...

That's Harlequin level casting.
Actually, this sounds like EXACTLY the kind of thing Harlequin would do for kicks. Toss a Mask spell on as well, and that's definitely something he'd go for.
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #57 on: (23:09:03/02-17-19) »
I have to have a laugh at this thread, because as far as I'm concerned anyone who gets enough hits to Levitate my Roadmaster deserves to have it succeed.
...
I remember some shadowtalk in a 3e? Supplement where a troll was bitching that his crew hit a convenience store and the kid there levitated their van with them in it until lone star showed up. He threatened to get the kid, and all I was thinking was if he could pull that off donít show up without an army. I suspect it was just a issue where the writer didnít do the math and thought it sounded cool to make whatever point was being made.(I think it was a anyone can be a mage style warning)

Been spending some time in 3e recently and looked it up... if "some kid" floated a TROLL, it would be impressive... But a van loaded with what I assume would be a couple other Orks/trolls....

Run. Run fast. Run far. Don't look back!

A typical Troll, weighting 200kg, (about 440lbs) is a TN of 6... 2 trolls.. makes that an 8... an Ork 10... A typical cargo van, 29.

Now, since Levitate is one of the few spells in 3e that force didn't matter... (this is the scary part!), the drain is the target number +2... or in this case a 31m.

So once this "kid" lifted the van, hell even attempted to lift the van; he had to make a drain resistance test of 31 Vs a moderate wound.. and IF his magic rating wasn't a 31, that was physical damage...


But IF i remember the story right, the "punk kid" was standing there with a smirk on his face.... Not bleeding from his ears and eyes.. not dazed and wobbly..... standing there smirking...

That's Harlequin level casting.
Actually, this sounds like EXACTLY the kind of thing Harlequin would do for kicks. Toss a Mask spell on as well, and that's definitely something he'd go for.

In the story the kid actually responded to the post, basically saying come around my pops place again and it wont be lonestar you have to worry about. Still could be Harlequin either continuing the charade or telling the kid to bluff like it was him. But, its one of those things it was never hinted at, so I think its just one of those times a writer knocks out a cool sounding story without doing the game math to see if it is feasible. I like the harlequin angle for a retcon so to speak.

Reaver

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« Reply #58 on: (02:09:17/02-18-19) »
I have to have a laugh at this thread, because as far as I'm concerned anyone who gets enough hits to Levitate my Roadmaster deserves to have it succeed.
...
I remember some shadowtalk in a 3e? Supplement where a troll was bitching that his crew hit a convenience store and the kid there levitated their van with them in it until lone star showed up. He threatened to get the kid, and all I was thinking was if he could pull that off donít show up without an army. I suspect it was just a issue where the writer didnít do the math and thought it sounded cool to make whatever point was being made.(I think it was a anyone can be a mage style warning)

Been spending some time in 3e recently and looked it up... if "some kid" floated a TROLL, it would be impressive... But a van loaded with what I assume would be a couple other Orks/trolls....

Run. Run fast. Run far. Don't look back!

A typical Troll, weighting 200kg, (about 440lbs) is a TN of 6... 2 trolls.. makes that an 8... an Ork 10... A typical cargo van, 29.

Now, since Levitate is one of the few spells in 3e that force didn't matter... (this is the scary part!), the drain is the target number +2... or in this case a 31m.

So once this "kid" lifted the van, hell even attempted to lift the van; he had to make a drain resistance test of 31 Vs a moderate wound.. and IF his magic rating wasn't a 31, that was physical damage...


But IF i remember the story right, the "punk kid" was standing there with a smirk on his face.... Not bleeding from his ears and eyes.. not dazed and wobbly..... standing there smirking...

That's Harlequin level casting.
Actually, this sounds like EXACTLY the kind of thing Harlequin would do for kicks. Toss a Mask spell on as well, and that's definitely something he'd go for.

In the story the kid actually responded to the post, basically saying come around my pops place again and it wont be lonestar you have to worry about. Still could be Harlequin either continuing the charade or telling the kid to bluff like it was him. But, its one of those things it was never hinted at, so I think its just one of those times a writer knocks out a cool sounding story without doing the game math to see if it is feasible. I like the harlequin angle for a retcon so to speak.

I don't remember the response at all... but the fact there was a response speak volumes.. as the old "Haven" (Can't actually remember its name currently :( ) was a deep site and required "hacking in" to gain entry... meaning the Kid just might have been 'in the biz'....

Do you remember the handle/name?
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #59 on: (12:12:01/02-18-19) »
I have to have a laugh at this thread, because as far as I'm concerned anyone who gets enough hits to Levitate my Roadmaster deserves to have it succeed.
...
I remember some shadowtalk in a 3e? Supplement where a troll was bitching that his crew hit a convenience store and the kid there levitated their van with them in it until lone star showed up. He threatened to get the kid, and all I was thinking was if he could pull that off donít show up without an army. I suspect it was just a issue where the writer didnít do the math and thought it sounded cool to make whatever point was being made.(I think it was a anyone can be a mage style warning)

Been spending some time in 3e recently and looked it up... if "some kid" floated a TROLL, it would be impressive... But a van loaded with what I assume would be a couple other Orks/trolls....

Run. Run fast. Run far. Don't look back!

A typical Troll, weighting 200kg, (about 440lbs) is a TN of 6... 2 trolls.. makes that an 8... an Ork 10... A typical cargo van, 29.

Now, since Levitate is one of the few spells in 3e that force didn't matter... (this is the scary part!), the drain is the target number +2... or in this case a 31m.

So once this "kid" lifted the van, hell even attempted to lift the van; he had to make a drain resistance test of 31 Vs a moderate wound.. and IF his magic rating wasn't a 31, that was physical damage...


But IF i remember the story right, the "punk kid" was standing there with a smirk on his face.... Not bleeding from his ears and eyes.. not dazed and wobbly..... standing there smirking...

That's Harlequin level casting.
Actually, this sounds like EXACTLY the kind of thing Harlequin would do for kicks. Toss a Mask spell on as well, and that's definitely something he'd go for.

In the story the kid actually responded to the post, basically saying come around my pops place again and it wont be lonestar you have to worry about. Still could be Harlequin either continuing the charade or telling the kid to bluff like it was him. But, its one of those things it was never hinted at, so I think its just one of those times a writer knocks out a cool sounding story without doing the game math to see if it is feasible. I like the harlequin angle for a retcon so to speak.

I don't remember the response at all... but the fact there was a response speak volumes.. as the old "Haven" (Can't actually remember its name currently :( ) was a deep site and required "hacking in" to gain entry... meaning the Kid just might have been 'in the biz'....

Do you remember the handle/name?

I wish my memory was that good.  No the story stood out to me at the time, I like playing mages in every game out there even in games where they suck.  So the feat was lets say beyond what any of the mage I ever played could hope for. I wish I could even remember which supplement it was, not that I could find it in the mess of my garage.  Still haven't sorted things since my last move which was over 5 years ago.