Character Conceptual Updates 2nd to 5th - Non-Decker Security

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« on: (11:10:20/01-24-19) »
Since coming back to the game after *ahem* many years away, I've been trying to run through some of my old builds, and, if not recreate, then certainly reimagine them under the new rules/meta. Which leads me to a couple of questions about the way the meta and the ruleset has changed the viability on the character.

The original concept behind the guy was a light cyber/bio "security specialist." (Specifically physical and electronic lockbreaking, security systems hardware/software creation and breaking, local device breaking, etc.)
Back in 2nd I used to be able to run with electronics/computer/stealth etc, and got a lot of mileage out of doing stuff that either didn't need or couldn't use a decker. While 'm still trying to wrap my head around the matrix rules as they are now, it's the background I'm more interested in. Is this still a viable path, or is everything electronic in 2080 basically "be a decker and do cybercombat or go home?"
Nostalgia 'aint what it used to be.


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« Reply #1 on: (11:20:18/01-24-19) »
I think it depends a bit on how your GM envisions security systems.

I tend to assume that corps make copious use of cameras, monitored by software to look for things of interest to bring to the attention of human security.  So in my game a pure intrusions expert of the sort you are talking about has limited utility -- using locksmithing to bypass a door is less useful when there is a camera watching you do it, and for that matter watching you approach the door in the first place, etc.

On the other hand, one time when I suggested (it was either here or Reddit) that intrusions experts was not a viable concept I got some fairly strong feedback that in other games this build works very well and has no trouble with breaking in places.

One thing to be aware of is that the new wireless matrix makes long distance hacking more difficult, and gives some value to being within 100 metres of where the action is, so hackers being with the party is more of a thing now, so although the skill set is different, it is very much possible to have a 'present-with-the-group' hacker who specializes in dealing with security.
Jawsey  --


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« Reply #2 on: (22:28:42/01-24-19) »
There is going to be some GM talking, taking advantage of perhaps engineering skillsets in ways that aren't really defined in the books.

To do things in the matrix, it is efficient to just be a decker or hacking technomancer. You can make characters that can do some things that deckers do, but taking care of matrix stuff is so intensive in skills, equipment, edge, etc. that just being a decker (that can also do other things) is usually easier than being someone who does something and does matrix work on the side. Basically, things rely on getting marks, and you need a persona (made through being a technomancer or having a deck) with an Attack of Sleaze attribute. Without this, matrix work is pretty much out of your zone.

If you aren't a hacker, then you aren't going to be able to do any host work or do anything that is matrix specific.

Things you can still do:
Mess with electronic and non electronic locks and other security devices
Mess with Alarms
Sensor operations
Search for information
Change ownership of devices (officially stealing devices you loot so that they respond to you and no it can't be used to just track you)

Everything else as a security expert is going to have to deal with other kinds of things you bring to the table.

Like "social" hacking:
Get employees with access codes to just do things for you by tricking, bribing, intimidating, etc. them
Get entrance to certain places or block entrance to other places using similar methods.

Physical work:
Climbing and contorting through building insides
Messing with industrial engineering systems - basically the actual physical components of machinery and not its matrix components (cutting off electricity, messing with  HVACs, disabling elevators, etc.). The rules on this are pretty sparse for such a crunchy system, so there is some GM talking to be had. 
Skulking about 



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« Reply #3 on: (22:31:07/01-24-19) »
Here is a quick mockup. Character still has 5 karma and 20kish nuyen to spend (needs ammo, armor mods, car mods, and other fun gear, etc.)

== Personal Data ==
Street Name:
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement:16/32 (2m/hit)
Swim:5 (1m/hit)
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 3
Public Awareness: 0
Composure: 6
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 5 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 8

== Priorities ==
Metatype: C,2
Attributes: D,1
Special: E,0
Skills: A,4
Resources: B,3

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 5(8)
REA: 3
STR: 2
CHA: 3
INT: 6
LOG: 2(4)
WIL: 3
EDG: 4

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                                3.95
Initiative:                             9 +1d6
Rigger Initiative:                      9 +1d6
Astral Initiative:                     
Matrix AR:                              9 +1d6
Matrix Cold:                            12 +3d6
Matrix Hot:                             12 +4d6
Physical Damage Track:                  10
Stun Damage Track:                      10

== Limits ==
   Autopicker [+6] (Only for picking mechanical locks)
Physical:                               4
   Autopicker [+6] (Only for picking mechanical locks)
Mental:                                 7
   Medkit [+6] (Only for First Aid and Medicine)
Social:                                 5
   Impassive [-1] (Does not include Intimidation.)
   Mortimer of London: Berwick Suit [+1] (Must be visible)
Astral:                                 7

== Active Skills ==
Automatics (Machine Pistols)            Base:6          Pool:14(16)
Con (Fast Talk)                         Base:1          Pool:4(6)
Disguise                                Base:6          Pool:12
Electronic Warfare (Sensor Operations)  Base:4          Pool:8(10)
Escape Artist (Contortionism)           Base:2          Pool:10(12)
Etiquette                               Base:3          Pool:6
Gymnastics (Climbing)                   Base:2          Pool:10(12)
Hardware ([Hardware Type])              Base:6          Pool:10(12)
Industrial Mechanic                     Base:4          Pool:8
Leadership                              Base:3          Pool:6
Locksmith (Maglock)                     Base:4          Pool:12(14)
Navigation                              Base:1          Pool:7
Negotiation                             Base:3          Pool:6
Palming                                 Base:6          Pool:14
Perception (Visual)                     Base:6          Pool:13(15)
Sneaking                                Base:6          Pool:14
Survival                                Base:1          Pool:4
Tracking                                Base:1          Pool:7
Unarmed Combat (Cyber Implants)         Base:2          Pool:10(12)

== Knowledge Skills ==
English                                 Native
Architecture (Commercial)               Base:1          Pool:6(8)
Astronomy (Stars)                       Base:2          Pool:7(9)
Engineering (Electrical)                Base:1          Pool:6(8)
Police Procedures (Street) (Physical)   Base:1          Pool:8(10)
Security Procedures                     Base:5          Pool:10
Sports (Baseball)                       Base:1          Pool:8(10)

== Contacts ==
;Fixer(4, 2)
;Troll Street Dealer(1, 2)

== Qualities ==
Addiction (Mild) (Psyche)
Addiction (Mild) (Cram)
Agile Defender
Analytical Mind
Common Sense
Drug Tolerant
Jack of All Trades Master of None
Low-Light Vision
Quick Healer
Weak Immune System
Will to Live

== Lifestyle ==
Low(Low)1 Month
   + Grid Subscription (Public Grid)

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Cerebral Booster Rating 2
Fingertip Compartment
Mnemonic Enhancer Rating 1
Muscle Toner Rating 3
Shock Hand

== Armor ==
Armor Jacket                            12
Mortimer of London: Berwick Suit         9
   + Concealability
   + Custom Fit

== Weapons ==
Ingram Smartgun X
   + Gas-Vent 2 System
   + Personalized Grip
   + Sling
   + Smartgun System, Internal
   + Sound Suppressor
   Pool: 14   Accuracy: 4 (7)   DV: 8P   AP: -   RC: 4
Knife (Survival Kit)
   Pool: 7   Accuracy: 5   DV: 3P   AP: -1   RC: 2
Remington Suppressor
   + Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
   + Gas-Vent 3 System
   + Personalized Grip
   + Smartgun System, Internal
   + Sound Suppressor
   Pool: 14 (16)   Accuracy: 6 (9)   DV: 7P   AP: -1   RC: 5
Shock Hand
   Pool: 10 (12)   Accuracy: 4   DV: 9S(e)   AP: -5   RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 10   Accuracy: 4   DV: 2S   AP: -   RC: 2

== Commlink ==
Transys Avalon(ATT: 0,SLZ: 0,DP: 6,FWL: 6)
   + Commlink Functionality[Camera, Micro, Chip Player, Credstick Reader, Earbuds, GPS Guidance System, Micro Trid-Projector, Music Player, RFID Tag Scanner, Shock- and Water-Resistant Case, Touchscreen Display]
   + Micro-Transceiver
   + Subvocal Mic

== Gear: Equipped ==
Autopicker Rating 6
Backpack (Good)
Bug Scanner Rating 6
Cellular Glove Molder Rating 4
Climbing Gear
Cram 10
Data Tap
Fake SIN Rating 4
   + Fake License (Weapon License) Rating 4
   + Fake License (Bodyguard License) Rating 4
   + Fake License (Driver's License) Rating 4
   + Fake License (Concealed Carry Permit) Rating 4
   + Fake License (Restricted Augmentation License) Rating 4
Keycard Copier Rating 6
Lockpick Set
Maglock Passkey Rating 4
Medkit Rating 6
Psyche 10
Restraint, Metal 5
Sequencer Rating 4
Survival Kit
   + Lighter
   + Compass
   + Matches
   + Lightweight Thermal Blanket
   + Several Days' Worth of Ration Bars
   + Water Purification Unit
Tool Kit (Disguise)
Tool Kit (Industrial Mechanic)
Tool Kit (Locksmith)
Tool Kit (Hardware)
White Noise Generator Rating 6

== Vehicles ==
Renault-Fiat Funone               
   + Metahuman Adjustment Rating 1
   + Morphing License Plate
   + Sensor Array Rating 2


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« Reply #4 on: (00:25:43/01-25-19) »
As to pulling a character from 2nd edition to 5th edition....

You can do it, it's about as pleasant as using sandpaper for toilet paper, but you can do it. (I have. Still hurts)

The least painful way is to follow the conversions you can find online to convert from 2 to 3, then 3 to 4, and finally 4 to 5. Just be aware that you lose a little bit along the way, and with out the books to easily reference back to; Royally difficult.

AS to your second question:

The viability of any build concept lies partially with your table and how your table plays. But, generally speaking, just about any concept is viable. Maybe not efficient, but viable.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.


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« Reply #5 on: (04:36:46/01-25-19) »
As to pulling a character from 2nd edition to 5th edition....

You can do it, it's about as pleasant as using sandpaper for toilet paper, but you can do it. (I have. Still hurts)

The least painful way is to follow the conversions you can find online to convert from 2 to 3, then 3 to 4, and finally 4 to 5. Just be aware that you lose a little bit along the way, and with out the books to easily reference back to; Royally difficult.

Which is why I'm stripping stuff back to the base concepts and rebuilding from there (effectively scratch build using the original archetype) rather than straight-up converting.
Nostalgia 'aint what it used to be.

kyoto kid

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« Reply #6 on: (00:34:42/01-29-19) »
...yeah that is the only way to do it. 

I tried to convert my Decker character Violet from 3rd ed, and it just can't be done as 3e (like 4e) also allowed for a point build system, which most campaigns I was in used. The other difference, Resoruce levels. 4e and 5e limit starting characters to 450K at top priority/BP cost less than half what the original character started with.  Crikey, her deck alone almost cost that much and that was slightly upper-middle range.

the straight build is OK. She doesn't come out of the box with a 10 logic and 6 agility like the 3e one did and a pretty wimpy deck (Device rating 2) as I needed some resources for augmentations to make her both a bit more survivable and effective in the meat world. Ended up eating it in attributes with only 16 BPs (C) as I took skills at B so she could cover all the matrix actions pretty well (Electronics Group 5).  Never had a character mess with drugs until 5e (she takes Designer grade Psyche and Jazz to get the boosts she needs [w/Narco genemod]).  She still has pretty pathetic physical attributes (save Agility) and physical limit. A major change from the original is that she ended up with a pair of matched cyberams which help a bit with her physical attributes (she actually has a decent pool with pistols as she modded up the Agility of both arms) and armour.  She also has both a Medkit 6 and Hardware Toolkit installed in them (saves having to lug these around with her low carry).
« Last Edit: (00:36:43/01-29-19) by kyoto kid »
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