NEWS

Smartgun/smartlink/contacts/glasses, how does it work?

  • 16 Replies
  • 686 Views

PMárk

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 121
« on: (22:58:05/01-16-19) »
Well, I've read through the assorted threads, regarding the topic, re-read the book's connected paragraphs a dozen ties and it still isn't clear to me. I thought it might worth asking, if the community reached a consensus since then.

So, how I see it at this point:

a, Smartgun in the gun, Smartlink either in external device, or in 'ware. Gives the +2 to accuracy and the +1 to attack pool (if run wirelessly). You can do this with wire (goggles, glasses), or wireless (goggles, glasses and contacts).

What makes me think this is that the example gunslinger adept does have contacts (which can't be connected via cable, because, well, contacts...) and has Smartlink on them (with no image link, mind you). Why would he, if it doesn't give any benefit? It didn't get errata'd either.

b, With cybereyes, the same as above, but +2 to attack pool (more direct connection).

c, If, on top of the above, you have some sort of DNI and either wire, or wireless (maybe just with wireless), if it's an external device, you'd get to use the nice free action stuff (ejecting clips, changing fire modes, etc.). Or are they accessible by simply having the smartlinked external device and the smartgun? I don't know, eye movements, AROs, voice?

Am I right? I've seen in the other threads some people stressing the need for DNI for any of the wireless stuff, but then again, why the sample adept has smartlink in contacts, without any kind of trode, or datajack?

There isn't anything official on this in the errata document/thread, or the missions FAQ. I'm doing a search on the "Rules clarifications/FAQ" thread above, but I thought it won't harm to ask.
« Last Edit: (23:16:21/01-16-19) by PMárk »
If nothing worked, let's think!

PiXeL01

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2190
  • Sheltering Orks in Osaka
« Reply #1 on: (00:37:51/01-17-19) »
The two devices are directly wirelessly connected, or maybe the gun is connected by wire to the commlink which the contacts are wirelessly (think Bluetooth) connected too.
You won’t get the dice if the mod in the gun is not wireless connected because it needs the local weather/environmental conditions. However, without the wireless function enabled you can safely get the accuracy bonus without fearing hackers.
If Tom Brady’s a Spike Baby, what does that make Brees and Rodgers?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1904
« Reply #2 on: (01:26:57/01-17-19) »
A) Yes.  Smartgun is in the gun.  An implanted smartlink is in your cybereyes or in your meat-eyes. A smartlink can otherwise be installed in non-implanted gear.

B) It's not a matter of the connection being more or less direct.  Implanted smartlinks give a better bonus "just because".  Well, that and from a game balance to incentivize actually taking them as cyberware... because who would if you could save the essence and just get the same benefit from cool mirrorshades?

C) A DNI isn't necessary for a smartlink.  Nor is image link.  (and mind you that image link is unnecesary/redundant if you do have a DNI) The smartlink has everything it needs by communicating with the smartgun.  Not having a DNI or image link is still generally a bad idea because you can't see AR or AROs, but the smartlink still works without that.  You don't need image link to see the targeting reticle or the other benefits a smartlink gives you.  One might argue that DNI is required for the "eject a clip or change firing mode as a free action", but I don't buy it.  For one, it never says you need DNI to do those things.  And beyond that, you can still rationalize an equivalent to "mental input" as glancing at a designated "eject clip" or "change firing mode" point in your field of view.  Real world tech can already do this.  It's basic/low technology by 2080.

Wireless vs direct connection:  Don't forget that if you do have a DNI, you can physically plug a cable from your datajack/trodes to the gun, and go all 1st edition in your appearance.  Full functionality, and without a wireless signal you can't be remotely hacked!  Well, not unless they put a data tap on your cable, and presumably you'd notice that...

« Last Edit: (01:29:34/01-17-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

RickDeckard

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • It can't rain all the time.
« Reply #3 on: (14:58:31/01-21-19) »
Here's how I understand it.

Gun must have Smartlink, external or internal, doesn't matter and doesn't affect the accuracy or dice pool bonus either way.

That Smartlink must connect to your vision somehow: Smartlink installed in Normal Eyes, Cybereyes, Contacts/Goggles/Glasses.

The two Smartlinks must be connected somehow:
1. Wireless: +2 Acc, +2 Dice Pool, Free Action Eject/Switch Fire Mode
2. By physical cable (to Data Jack or Goggles since Contacts and Normal Eyes cannot contain a jack): +2 Acc, +1 Dice Pool, No Free Action Benefits

In order for Wireless function to work, you need a DNI, which can be either a Data Jack, Built-in Cyberdeck or Control Rig.


Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1904
« Reply #4 on: (16:57:55/01-21-19) »
Even if DNI is necessary, it's easy to get.  A set of trodes costs 70¥, and can be installed into lots of kinds of headgear/armor you might already be using anyway.  Kill Code has the more expensive option in a Trode Patch, but it's a little dealie the size of a quarter and is pretty concealable.  In case it's ever important to have concealable DNI that costs no essence.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

RickDeckard

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • It can't rain all the time.
« Reply #5 on: (16:31:31/01-22-19) »
Unfortunately the rules specifically state that you must have paid essence for it to work.

Kiirnodel

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • *
  • Posts: 1458
« Reply #6 on: (16:35:51/01-22-19) »
Paid essence for what to work? DNI?

The only time the rules specify that you must have an implant is for the dice pool bonus. If you have the implanted eyeware the bonus is +2, otherwise it is +1.

Edit: The gear listing for trodes says "this electrode-and-ultrasound net gives you a direct neural interface" and comments that it is for people too squeamish to get an implant.
« Last Edit: (16:42:24/01-22-19) by Kiirnodel »

kyoto kid

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 909
  • Bushido Cowgirl
« Reply #7 on: (02:50:09/01-23-19) »
...so what about going total throwback? Hardwired data connection between the gun and implant through say a datajack along with an internal router.

Hardwired smartlinks in the past gave the full bonus prior to wireless, same for any chrome like eyes, ears reflexes, cyberlimbs, etc.

One would think that advances in cybertechnology should make such systems more secure, robust, and reliable, not less.
Forsaken daughter is watching you

PMárk

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 121
« Reply #8 on: (09:41:55/01-23-19) »
Here's how I understand it.

Gun must have Smartlink, external or internal, doesn't matter and doesn't affect the accuracy or dice pool bonus either way.

That Smartlink must connect to your vision somehow: Smartlink installed in Normal Eyes, Cybereyes, Contacts/Goggles/Glasses.

The two Smartlinks must be connected somehow:
1. Wireless: +2 Acc, +2 Dice Pool, Free Action Eject/Switch Fire Mode
2. By physical cable (to Data Jack or Goggles since Contacts and Normal Eyes cannot contain a jack): +2 Acc, +1 Dice Pool, No Free Action Benefits

In order for Wireless function to work, you need a DNI, which can be either a Data Jack, Built-in Cyberdeck or Control Rig.

This need for DNI thing is what makes it ambiguous to me. I re-read the affiliated parts of the book several times, and the earlier forum threads and I still don't think the book states that you do need DNI. It just says you need a smartgun system in the gun and Smartlink in whatever.

The book does say that you can do all the nice free action stuff with a DNI, which you can't do otherwise, but I lean more toward the Smartlink system acting as a substitute to that.

At least, I just don't see a reason (nor I think it was written like that) for you needing a DNI for the accuracy and targeting enhancements. That's literally just stuff that gets projected on your field of vision by whatever means, that helps you aim.

The free action stuff, I could get why DNI is necessary, but I think it's still doable with just the smartlink, for the reasons mentioned earlier (specific eye movements, AR, vocalized orders, etc.).

Moreover, the smartlink didn't need a DNI in earlier editions, if I remember correctly, just goggles connected to a smartgun did it.

From SR3:

Quote
Smart Goggles: This pair of oversized goggles connects by
fiber-optic cable to a weapon rigged as a smartgun. The chips
in the gun feed into receptors in the goggles, producing red
cross hairs in the user’s field of vision, centered on where the
gun is pointing. The amount of ammunition remaining also
appears in the user’s field of vision.This system may be built into a helmet or, for double the
nuyen, rigged as mirrored sunglasses. In addition to simple targeting, smart goggles may be set up for low-light or infrared
reception. For low-light or infrared additions, add +1,000¥.

Smartgun Systems: Available in internal and external versions,
the smartgun system provides a feedback circuit relating the
gun’s angle of fire to the shooter’s line of sight. The internal
smartgun system is built into the gun and doubles the weapon’s
cost if installed after manufacturing. The external system mounts
on the weapon (top- or underbarrel positions) and can be transferred from weapon to weapon, with one hour of maintenance
and alignment. Without a receptor (smart goggles or smartlink),
the hardware is dead weight. Using a smartlinked weapon provides a –2 target number modifier for firearms tests.



So, I do think the DNI is redundant for the smartgun system to work in 5e too.

Do we have any official say on this from the devs/errata team?
If nothing worked, let's think!

Banshee

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Omae
  • *
  • Posts: 284
« Reply #9 on: (11:43:49/01-23-19) »
No DNI is required, the implant system covers this requirement just fine
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
Freelancer & FAQ Committee member
Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1904
« Reply #10 on: (12:08:16/01-23-19) »
Let's clarify some common terminology.

DNI:
Quote from: pg. 222, SR5
DIRECT NEURAL INTERFACE
A direct neural interface, or DNI, connects your brain to
electronic devices. Direct neural interface (along with a sim
module) is required for VR use, but DNI is also useful for AR
in that you don’t need any additional gear like earbuds or an
image link to see or hear augmented reality objects.
How do you sign up? You get DNI by wearing trodes, or
having an implanted datajack, commlink, or cyberdeck. And if
you’re using a sim module along with your DNI, you can get a
sort of “super AR mode” where you can also feel, smell, and
taste your AR experience.

So 1) you don't need an implant to have a DNI and 2) it does what it says it does say and doesn't do what it doesn't say.

Smartgun System:
Quote from: pg 433, SR5
This connects a firearm or a
projectile weapon directly to the user’s smartlink. Incorporating
a small camera and laser range finder, the
smartlink keeps track of ammunition, heat buildup, and
material stress. If you have a smartlink, you can mentally
switch between gun modes, eject a clip, and fire
the gun without pulling the trigger. The camera lets
you shoot around corners without exposing yourself
to return fire (at a –3 dice pool penalty). The system
makes use of advanced calculation software, allowing
for precisely calculated trajectories and high precision
over any distance.

There's more, but trying to limit the Wall of Quotes.  What's relevant here is that some of the abilities gained by the smartgun tech (switching modes, ejecting a clip, firing w/o touching the trigger) can be done "mentally".  This doesn't explicitly say DNI is required, but since DNI says it "connects your brain to electronic devices" it's certainly fair to argue this is an implicit reference to DNI regardless.  What's less clear is whether the things that CAN be done mentally HAVE to be done mentally.

In the rest of the writeup for the smartgun tech, it goes on to say that the only difference between interfacing with a worn smartlink and an implanted smartlink is the wireless bonus is +1 for the former and +2 for the latter.  Literally every other aspect of smartgun operation is identical between worn and implanted smartlinks.

Smartlink:
Quote from: pg. 444, SR5
Smartlink: This accessory works with a smartgun system
to give you the full benefit of the system. The smartgun
will tell you the range to various targets, as well as
ammunition level (and type), heat buildup, mechanical
stress and so on. Without a smartlink, a smartgun system
just sends out data that isn’t received by anyone and has
no effect. A smartlink installed in a natural eye or in a pair
of cybereyes is more effective than a smartlink installed in
an external device; see Smartgun System, p. 433.

That's literally it.  The entirety of the smartlink rules. Nothing to add as to whether a DNI is required for the smartlink to "talk" to the smartgun at all, or only for the abilities that allow for mental input.

An anecdotal example that suggests that what CAN be done mentally may perhaps not necessarily HAVE to be done mentally, and therefore rendering the absolute need for DNI questionable:
Ares Antioch-2 Wireless bonus:
Quote from: pg. 431, SR5
Wireless: You can use the wireless link trigger for
your grenades, even if you don’t have DNI (Direct Neural
Interface sidebar, p. 222).

Clearly, there's a way to interface lightning quick commands (such as when in-flight your grenade should explode) with your Ares Antioch-2 without having to mentally provide the input.  Maybe it's a special feature unique to the Ares Antioch-2's integral smartlink.  Or maybe every smartlink can accept commands at the speed of thought by avenues other than thought broadcast over DNI.  It's literally not clear.
 
« Last Edit: (14:50:27/01-23-19) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Banshee

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Omae
  • *
  • Posts: 284
« Reply #11 on: (13:55:04/01-23-19) »
No DNI is required! the smartlink implant has the interface requirement covered. The only thing you need to worry about is if you are running wired or wireless first then are you running via an implant or glasses/goggles/contacts.
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
Freelancer & FAQ Committee member
Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

RickDeckard

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • It can't rain all the time.
« Reply #12 on: (02:05:47/01-25-19) »
Ok, so revised understanding is no DNI required, only that you have to pay Essence for Smartlink implant to gain the +2 dice pool. If you're wearing goggles or contacts you get the +1 dice pool if you're running wireless and if you go old school with a cable you just get the acc bonus.

Thanks guys.

PMárk

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 121
« Reply #13 on: (09:15:07/01-25-19) »
Yeah, thank you all, I'm glad it got cleared up! :)

As I wrote in the OP, it was strange that the pistol adept in the corebook had contacts with smartlink and all, but no DNI, if DNI was needed for it to work. Good to know it is how it was intended to work and not an oversight!
If nothing worked, let's think!

Wenlocke

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 38
« Reply #14 on: (10:00:19/01-25-19) »
Ok, so revised understanding is no DNI required, only that you have to pay Essence for Smartlink implant to gain the +2 dice pool. If you're wearing goggles or contacts you get the +1 dice pool if you're running wireless and if you go old school with a cable you just get the acc bonus.

Thanks guys.

And to add to this revised understanding (as I've been puzzling this through as well, life was so much less faff when it was "smartgun to palmpad to smartlink" or "smartgub to cable to smartgoggles.") The "mental command to drop clips etc" only works if you have a DNI (ie. you have smartlink hardware in your head?) Am I getting that right?
Nostalgia 'aint what it used to be.