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Scanners, MAD detectors, SiN Verification.... and Hosts

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kainite311

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« on: (16:39:44/08-26-18) »
How often do you all slave these types of devices to a Host? I have a Techno that wants to hack these devices on the fly as they check other players to get them by without a hassle. I understand the rules on them (Device Rating x 2 vs SiN or threshold of ware). But the question is how often would these devices be slaved to a Host or similar (comlink, whatever for Firewall). Example locations would be security checkpoints for access to a neighborhood, business, hotel... Random Lonestar officer pulling you over and checking your ID... Pro's and Con's of slaving are the usual, every slaved device is one more way for hackers to enter a host, but Hosts generally have better firewall and offer hacking defenses... Would an upscale hotel just rely on a higher Device Rating scanner, or risk exposing Host by slaving it. Players of course will generally go all out defense on slaving their gear, but they have far less to lose than slaving 200 things that are potential entry points to a host. Anyone have some guidelines on how often people and places would normally slave to hosts in the normal world? Corp buildings I can see having 2 hosts most of the time. The security host and the business host nested inside...
Kainite
Actually, in most Shadowrun games, they typically have a Lifestyle so they're either Murder Hobos (Street/Squatter Level) or Murder Renters (Low+ level)

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #1 on: (16:44:50/08-26-18) »
Honestly, most of the time I have these things wired to a central node, instead of running wirelessly. And of course when wireless, it's a Host that requires you being near it (no hacking from 5km away), and will usually be Rating 5, Firewall 8. As for on-the-move gear, Security will usually go 'nope, not slaved' because it's a massive security risk. Cameras and such are in high corners so not easily wire-hacked.
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #2 on: (17:04:38/08-26-18) »
Depends on how difficult you want to make it for your players:

Extreme:
A dedicated security host (a host with no paydata inside) with Patrol IC looking for illegal MARKs (you recognize an illegal MARK pretty easily if the default state of the host says it should have no MARKs)
As soon as the IC finds one, it can search the slaved devices for MARKs and isolate which is being hacked and also start counter measures.

Hard:
A local deck or RCC, optimized for firewall with an agent running, looking for MARKs. A lot less expensive than a dedicated host, but it is possible to lock down the agent with Cat's Paw, so it won't actually be able to perceive anything anymore.

Easy:
Just keep the scanners wireless off, making it necessary to touch them or datatap them first.

talk think matrix

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kainite311

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« Reply #3 on: (17:53:06/08-26-18) »
Honestly, most of the time I have these things wired to a central node, instead of running wirelessly. And of course when wireless, it's a Host that requires you being near it (no hacking from 5km away), and will usually be Rating 5, Firewall 8. As for on-the-move gear, Security will usually go 'nope, not slaved' because it's a massive security risk. Cameras and such are in high corners so not easily wire-hacked.

Yeah, the idea is the hacker is there onsite, waiting to go thru scanner or whatever, hacking from AR before their turn to go thru

Kainite
Actually, in most Shadowrun games, they typically have a Lifestyle so they're either Murder Hobos (Street/Squatter Level) or Murder Renters (Low+ level)

PingGuy

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« Reply #4 on: (11:52:41/08-27-18) »
A dedicated security host (a host with no paydata inside) with Patrol IC looking for illegal MARKs (you recognize an illegal MARK pretty easily if the default state of the host says it should have no MARKs)
As soon as the IC finds one, it can search the slaved devices for MARKs and isolate which is being hacked and also start counter measures.

While reading this explanation, it occurred to me that I may have misunderstood something about hosts.  Some hosts are open, they will give you one mark freely so you can enter them.  I had assumed that for closed hosts, putting a mark on it (so you could enter it) would alert the host.  But that can't be the case, based on what Jack wrote above.  Should I be assuming that a host with no active spider and no running patrol IC wouldn't know it was being affected at all until GOD convergence notified it?

I think I keep conflating marks with illegal activity, when it's actually the actions to get the marks that are illegal.  The presence of marks is common, even adding new ones can be.  The host doesn't know if you are supposed to have a mark or not, or does it?  What does the spider or patrol IC actually look for that tells them something happened that shouldn't have?  Like maybe a strange mark on the host might not be questioned as much as a strange mark on an important system or file.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #5 on: (12:02:25/08-27-18) »
@OP: If the PC hacker in question is a Technomancer, don't forget that security sensors built into doorframes and whatnot aren't actually physically available for the touchlink Technomancer power.  It's also often the case for modern "desktop computers"... the computer's guts are safely ensconced behind the drywall and the wageslave taps away on an AR keyboard on his physical desk.

@PingGuy: I had some very similar questions and I got some great answers to them in this thread.
« Last Edit: (12:10:12/08-27-18) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
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Hobbes

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« Reply #6 on: (07:39:35/08-30-18) »
Technomancer can also be Threading the complex forms Editor or Puppeteer on the Devices.  If they're slaved to a host you'll want a couple Registered Sprites using the Assist Threading power. 

Typically its an Edit File action for a Decker to edit a live feed from a Camera or Scanner so Editor is usually the go to CF.  But Puppeteer has it's uses.  Opening locks and doors for example.

Editor is sustained so you'll only need a single Threading action for each device for the team. 

Sprite powers Gremlins and Electron Storm are also possible ways of dealing with Security devices depending on what exactly is going on.  Beat cop with a SIN scanner for example.  Gremlins on a SIN scanner that's scanning someone else, for example, is hilarious.  False Positives can be fun!

kainite311

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« Reply #7 on: (10:48:55/08-30-18) »
@OP: If the PC hacker in question is a Technomancer, don't forget that security sensors built into doorframes and whatnot aren't actually physically available for the touchlink Technomancer power.  It's also often the case for modern "desktop computers"... the computer's guts are safely ensconced behind the drywall and the wageslave taps away on an AR keyboard on his physical desk.

@PingGuy: I had some very similar questions and I got some great answers to them in this thread.

That's why it would be AR. If it is building security, then maybe its connected to a host. But at a security checkpoint from one neighborhood to another,  doubtful due to logistics and distance to a host (cost, distance, noise, risk..). Same with security walking around or vehicles. I am imagining that they are slaves to a specialized comlink. Just trying to come up with some realistic firewall ratings for various areas,  especially low to mid level security (fancy hotel, high end neighborhood, classy bar/ social places...)
Kainite
Actually, in most Shadowrun games, they typically have a Lifestyle so they're either Murder Hobos (Street/Squatter Level) or Murder Renters (Low+ level)

Xelian

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« Reply #8 on: (10:10:14/09-08-18) »
Honestly, most of the time I have these things wired to a central node, instead of running wirelessly. And of course when wireless, it's a Host that requires you being near it (no hacking from 5km away), and will usually be Rating 5, Firewall 8. As for on-the-move gear, Security will usually go 'nope, not slaved' because it's a massive security risk. Cameras and such are in high corners so not easily wire-hacked.

I'm probably missing something but doesn't hacking a device slaved to a comlink/host automatically put a mark on the comlink/host? That was one of the risks of slaving. Or it is only for comlinks/decks?

On the topic - Handheld scanners and so on probably don't run on a host. Anything stationary probably does. Whether it will be dedicated host or not is up to you. To be honest hacking is on of the worst aspects of the system and i tend to overlook it a lot as it mostly leave 1 player playing (hacking) while the others do nothing. So on your place I will be lenient and let the scanners be without a host and let the Techno hack them instead of going through 5 minute personal hacking combat per scanner hack.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #9 on: (10:13:25/09-08-18) »
You're right that marks flow upwards. That is why you don't want to slave for example a car. If someone gets close to the car and plugs in, the car isn't protected but the mark still flows up.
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #10 on: (10:55:33/09-08-18) »
Now that we have Kill Code, there are Industry Hosts that no longer get direct connections to other devices. So now any corp can safely slave whatever they want for extra protection without worrying. 
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex