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difference between Image Magnification and Improved Range Finder?

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adzling

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« on: (11:56:04/03-18-16) »
The only difference I can divine is that Image Magnification requires you to Take Aim to get the bonus while the Improved Range Finder does not.

Agree/ Disagree?

gradivus

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« Reply #1 on: (14:51:47/03-18-16) »
If you use the improved range finder it reduces range modifiers by one. So a -3 becomes a -2.
Vision Magnification reduces the range category[/b ]by one. So long range becomes medium.

The advantage of the improved range finder is you don't have to take aim.
The advantage of vision magnification is that you have a smaller penalty at ranges beyond medium.
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ScytheKnight

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« Reply #2 on: (03:00:32/03-19-16) »
And both become irrelevant if something else is causing a bigger penalty.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #3 on: (11:54:22/03-19-16) »
In other words, which one is better depends on the role you're intending for the weapon.

Improved Range Finder is better for, say, an assault rifle where you may need to engage enemies at range, especially while either closing or fleeing from the enemy. Fluid firefights are what you should be thinking here.

Vision Magnification is better for, say, sniper rifles, where you're looking to make accurate shots at long range. Hunting or ambush situations are the key here.
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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #4 on: (12:54:41/03-19-16) »
We houseruled that Improved Range Finder also shifts the penalty by one category, as that makes it both more consistent with existing rules (and avoids questions related to multiple environment modifiers) and makes it worth the significantly higher cost.

I'd have to check, but I believe this is also more consistent with the previous edition; we just really didn't like all the questions brought up by IRF reducing the modifier, not category, by one.

Pap Renvela

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« Reply #5 on: (15:05:48/03-19-16) »
We houseruled that Improved Range Finder also shifts the penalty by one category, as that makes it both more consistent with existing rules (and avoids questions related to multiple environment modifiers) and makes it worth the significantly higher cost.

I'd have to check, but I believe this is also more consistent with the previous edition; we just really didn't like all the questions brought up by IRF reducing the modifier, not category, by one.

Since I tend to use BF/FA    i usually aim in between shots anyway so have never bought the range finder.

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #6 on: (18:33:20/03-20-16) »
The best option of the lot however is Hawk Eye quality, automatically shifts the range bands one step. That said, about the most you're going to be able to do to your eyes after that is imagelink/smartlink chip them.
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Rooks

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« Reply #7 on: (18:56:08/03-20-16) »
And tetrachrome for +3 perception and night vision

Novocrane

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« Reply #8 on: (20:34:49/03-20-16) »
about the most you're going to be able to do to your eyes after that is imagelink/smartlink chip them.
That would be cyberware - one of two things hawkeye is incompatible with.

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #9 on: (23:11:54/03-20-16) »
Quote from: Run Faster P147
The quality is part of charactersí natural eyes and is not compatible with electronic vision enhancements and/or cyber- or bioware augmentations or replacements.

Once again, it comes down to what exactly means what, something SR5 is notoriously bad at.

In my games I allow Image/Smart Link to be chipped into the eyes because to me, they are an overlay rather than an enhancement. They do nothing to attempt to improve your eyes in any way, they just give you extra information on top of your eyesight.

As it is with many things, it's really up to the GM, and that's how I've ruled it as the GM of my table.
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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #10 on: (23:59:49/03-20-16) »
That's an interesting interpretation, given the stipulation of "not compatible with electronic vision enhancements" and Smartlink being listed under Vision Enhancements.

Mirikon

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« Reply #11 on: (01:32:58/03-21-16) »
Agreed with Herr Brackhaus. That's like saying the sky is green and the grass is blue.
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ScytheKnight

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« Reply #12 on: (03:58:01/03-21-16) »
Should also note that these are the ONLY things I allow, as anything else is more about altering vision, rather than displaying another layer on top of existing vision.
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Pap Renvela

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« Reply #13 on: (05:45:09/03-21-16) »
 I guess the second part of the statement that specifically prohibits cyberware and bioware is not spelled out enough....

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #14 on: (07:08:18/03-21-16) »
If you take the strictest view, that makes Hawk Eye totally incompatible with Image/Smart Link of any kind, internal or external.

And trust me, I see what you're saying. I can see that anything that attempts to alter the ways your eyes work (thermographic vision or vision enhancement for example) would mess up Hawk Eye. Image/Smart Link however doesn't do anything to change how the eyes work, it simply displays an overlay on top of what the eyes naturally see. To me at least, that seems like it would still work.
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