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Rigger 5 Errata

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Kiirnodel

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« Reply #270 on: (13:54:10/07-03-16) »
Well it is still 3 extra weapon modification slots, there just isn't a whole lot that counts as that other than weapon mounts. Other than that little discrepancy I don't see what is "gimped" about the Roto-drone...

Fabe

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« Reply #271 on: (14:29:48/07-03-16) »
yeah after thinking about it I retract my statement, having 3 mod points even if it is just for weapon mounts is pretty good.  you could stick a large mount on a roto for 4 points and still have 3 points for other mods. and with attribute up grades being so cheap those 3 remaining points can do a fair amont.

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #272 on: (08:35:05/07-04-16) »
. It would have been better if the drone mods were just folded into the regular mods and simply a note added "Unlike other vehicles, drones only get one pool of mod slots equal to their body."


that would be horrible in my opinion. it would make it impossible to give all but the largest of drone any decent mods. a simple +1 speed boost cost 5 mod points under the standard rules. And good luck giving drone any decent extra armor which some already feel are to fragile ,just giving a roto-drone 1 extra point of additional armor will cost 2 of its 4  body points.  under the optional drone modding rule I can add 9 extra points of armor for the same price . if you count the 3 extra points intended for weapon slots you'll even have enough room for a large drone weapon mount and you'll still be able to up all its other stats by 1  point for free. I know what rules I 'll be using for drone modification
Okay. Add "the first point of increase, or first three points for armor, costs zero mod slots. Additional increases beyond this are calculated as normal". Maybe one or two other tweaks. Suddenly we go from an entire chapter down to one extra paragraph needed for drones, and effectively get the same results without creating yet another system on top of a game that already has a massive number of rules systems.

From a design efficiency point of view, that whole optional rule chapter feels like an exercise in padding the word count.


-k
« Last Edit: (08:38:51/07-04-16) by KarmaInferno »

adzling

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« Reply #273 on: (14:05:35/07-04-16) »
This is a great example of what the Line Editor should be doing.
The fact that he did not recognize this is just another example of how poorly he is doing,

. It would have been better if the drone mods were just folded into the regular mods and simply a note added "Unlike other vehicles, drones only get one pool of mod slots equal to their body."


that would be horrible in my opinion. it would make it impossible to give all but the largest of drone any decent mods. a simple +1 speed boost cost 5 mod points under the standard rules. And good luck giving drone any decent extra armor which some already feel are to fragile ,just giving a roto-drone 1 extra point of additional armor will cost 2 of its 4  body points.  under the optional drone modding rule I can add 9 extra points of armor for the same price . if you count the 3 extra points intended for weapon slots you'll even have enough room for a large drone weapon mount and you'll still be able to up all its other stats by 1  point for free. I know what rules I 'll be using for drone modification
Okay. Add "the first point of increase, or first three points for armor, costs zero mod slots. Additional increases beyond this are calculated as normal". Maybe one or two other tweaks. Suddenly we go from an entire chapter down to one extra paragraph needed for drones, and effectively get the same results without creating yet another system on top of a game that already has a massive number of rules systems.

From a design efficiency point of view, that whole optional rule chapter feels like an exercise in padding the word count.


-k

Fabe

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« Reply #274 on: (20:15:10/07-04-16) »
. It would have been better if the drone mods were just folded into the regular mods and simply a note added "Unlike other vehicles, drones only get one pool of mod slots equal to their body."


that would be horrible in my opinion. it would make it impossible to give all but the largest of drone any decent mods. a simple +1 speed boost cost 5 mod points under the standard rules. And good luck giving drone any decent extra armor which some already feel are to fragile ,just giving a roto-drone 1 extra point of additional armor will cost 2 of its 4  body points.  under the optional drone modding rule I can add 9 extra points of armor for the same price . if you count the 3 extra points intended for weapon slots you'll even have enough room for a large drone weapon mount and you'll still be able to up all its other stats by 1  point for free. I know what rules I 'll be using for drone modification
Okay. Add "the first point of increase, or first three points for armor, costs zero mod slots. Additional increases beyond this are calculated as normal". Maybe one or two other tweaks. Suddenly we go from an entire chapter down to one extra paragraph needed for drones, and effectively get the same results without creating yet another system on top of a game that already has a massive number of rules systems.

From a design efficiency point of view, that whole optional rule chapter feels like an exercise in padding the word count.


-k

yeah I don't see hows that gets the same results . with the drone modding rules I could increase a roto-drones speed and acceleration by two each for only 2 mod points .with your idea  I could only increases  the acceleration by two by using the one free upgrade then speading all 4 of the drones power train mod points  and I could only increase the speed by 1 using the free upgrade since any thing over that would cost 5 mod points/slots.

The drone modding rule aren't that long and are not that complicated and gives players some more  options for customizing their drones.

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #275 on: (21:50:05/07-04-16) »
Clarification: Free first point per vehicle attribute (or three for Armor).

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #276 on: (01:28:57/07-05-16) »
It probably would have been easier to have the modding drones be an optional set of rules that comes after the rest of the modding rules. Possibly mentioned in the beginning of the chapter (by using a side-bar or some-such), but then just use a couple of pages to note the differences and maybe have an extra chart noting the different costs.

I always found it odd that the "optional" rules for modding drones came before the full rules, which the drone rules partially use...

Fabe

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« Reply #277 on: (17:19:24/07-05-16) »
It probably would have been easier to have the modding drones be an optional set of rules that comes after the rest of the modding rules. Possibly mentioned in the beginning of the chapter (by using a side-bar or some-such), but then just use a couple of pages to note the differences and maybe have an extra chart noting the different costs.

I always found it odd that the "optional" rules for modding drones came before the full rules, which the drone rules partially use...

 It probaly would make a bit more sense to have the drone modding rules afyer the main rules. At the very least it would make it easier to compare the two rules sections if they were closer together instead of having them separated by both the vehicle and drone chapters.

 on another note what is the range of motion suppose to be on drone weapon mounts? Fixed,flexible or turreted?

Duellist_D

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« Reply #278 on: (01:14:05/07-07-16) »
FYI, one small bit of errata that made it into the German Rigger 5:

Drone Cyberarms now have a capacity limit of BOD x 2 and the possibility to give them Synthetic arms is explicitly mentioned, with those having a cap of BODx1 for Drones.

And since there was occasionally the discussion whether only the UP cost for armor would 1 UP for the first 3 Armor and then 1 UP for each additional, its now explicitly stated as "1 UP for each 3 Points of Armor"

Wakshaani

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« Reply #279 on: (08:35:03/07-07-16) »
on another note what is the range of motion suppose to be on drone weapon mounts? Fixed,flexible or turreted?

Fixed in virtually all cases. The new Ares micro-tanks have turrets, for instance,and the Steel Lynx,  but I don't think any others do. Drones, however, have a *vastly* better turn radius, with anything in the Bod 4 or less side of things being about as nimble as a metahuman, so the fixed position isn't a big deal. A pocket-sized quad-copter can turn to face where it wants to shoot a wee bit more easily than a van. :D

Fabe

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« Reply #280 on: (10:32:41/07-07-16) »
 OK so  when using the standard "Building the perfect beast" rules drones can have turrets with the full range of motion but when using the optional drone only rules the turrets are fixed,correct?

Wakshaani

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« Reply #281 on: (11:32:49/07-07-16) »
I couldn't tell you about the vehicle rules as I didn't work on 'em. :) Under the drone mod rules, drone weapons are fixed, but they're so mobile that it doesn't really matter. I should make a note about turrets for larger ones for the errata list, tho.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #282 on: (11:53:44/07-07-16) »
Since rules for drone combat "are the same as those for regular flesh-and-blood characters", (see page 270 of SR5), the question about weapon mount mobility is pretty much moot; simply assume they can point their weapon in the desired direction as normal metahumans.

Wakshaani

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« Reply #283 on: (12:22:46/07-07-16) »
Since rules for drone combat "are the same as those for regular flesh-and-blood characters", (see page 270 of SR5), the question about weapon mount mobility is pretty much moot; simply assume they can point their weapon in the desired direction as normal metahumans.

Pretty much, yeah. I mean, if you've strapped a gun into your Festo Pigeon, and somebody is holding it in their hands where it can't turn, and you want to remotely fire it at a guy off to one side, well, poke your GM and see what's what. The big drones what *need* turrets are in the minority by a mile.

Fabe

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« Reply #284 on: (00:43:37/07-08-16) »
I couldn't tell you about the vehicle rules as I didn't work on 'em. :) Under the drone mod rules, drone weapons are fixed, but they're so mobile that it doesn't really matter. I should make a note about turrets for larger ones for the errata list, tho.

 Ok in that case I think it would be safe to a assume that if you're only using the standard modding rules then a drone can take what even weapon mounts that have the slots for.

 on yet another note can we also assume that all the new features added to some drones in the 'core vehicle modification' side bar on page 155 always carry over regardless of whether  or not the rules being used would allow it?