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Adding Sensors to Ballistic Mask

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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #15 on: (11:27:38/06-18-15) »
Well said ;)
Thank you.

I think this is one example of the rules being unclear, particularly where sensors are concerned.

Quote from: SR5 page 445 (emphasis mine)
Sensors need to be placed in a housing or case of some sort, or built into another device. Sensors can record data themselves or forward it wirelessly in real-time or as files to other devices. Sensors are available in seven ratings (2–8) and two types: single and array. When you use the sensor array for Perception Tests, you may use your Electronic Warfare skill in place of your Perception skill, and you may use the sensor’s Rating as your limit.

RAW is that these rules only apply for sensor arrays and not single sensors, but it is my opinion that they should also apply to the latter. RAW is also that you "may" use the rating as your Limit, which implies that you have a choice. This would be beneficial in situations where your Mental Limit is higher than the rating of the sensor or vice versa, but it's this kind of grammatical ambiguity that makes it difficult to get a clear understanding of the rules both as written and intended.

For what it's worth, I personally think a character with an olfactory sensor should get the same benefit as the visual and audio enhancements, but that this ruling does raise the issue of cost. A rating 2 sensor is 200¥ while the equivalent enhancement is 1000¥. To make it simple, I would personally houserule an olfactory enhancement that would have the same function as the olfactory sensor, but the same cost as the enhancement. Any device capable of taking another enhancements (armor, headgear, visual and audio devices) would also be capable of taking the olfactory enhancement, but I would also require DNI to use it.

Xenon

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« Reply #16 on: (11:33:17/06-18-15) »
I would house rule that you can use either mental or sensor as limit and either electronic warfare or perception to detect a person, critter or vehicle. With a positive dice pool bonus of device rating.

Rules to detect a scent or explosives are clear.

Rooks

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« Reply #17 on: (11:36:02/06-18-15) »
Ok so ultrasound sensor, how does that work? can you put it in a single sensor array and its rating is 1-6 cost rating x 12 000 and you can use electronic warfare in place of perception? how does this differ from the cyberware? and does it like like vision enchancement where if its wireless off it acts like the limit to the perception tests and if its wireless on it adds as a dice pool to perception tests?

Rooks

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« Reply #18 on: (11:42:49/06-18-15) »
I_AM_ZHOUL!!!, I meant to ask you for awhile now; Why do you keep using "!!!" and "???" in your post
Because he's ZHOUL!!! MFer :P

To detect explosives or ammunition, roll a dice pool equal to the chemsniffer's rating against a threshold of 2 (3 if the explosives/ammo are hermetically sealed). Apply modifiers as noted on the Chemical Detection Modifiers table. [/I]
Ya and then run and gun makes thinks further complicated incorperating a hermetically sealed steel case that takes away dice from those scanners test to sense explosives


Reaver

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« Reply #19 on: (13:43:54/06-18-15) »
Speaking as someone who installs industrial sensors for a living, a "sensor array" is just a collection of sensors in a single housing..... or its just a single sensor in an easily mounted container.


Don't get padentic over a single word. It doesn't help you or the argument.

Generally speaking, sensors are sold in two states: array form and componet form.

Array form: comes in a nice robust casing, is easy to mount mount and install, and easy to connect.

Componet form: used only to replace the damaged internals of an array sensor. Often is just a jumble of wires, SS device, and other funky bits. They then require you to install them into an approved housing or container in order to actually work right. (Which is why you buy an array for your initial installation, then buy sensors for repair/replacement for those arrays when they fail)


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Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Reaver

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« Reply #20 on: (13:49:25/06-18-15) »
Here is another way to look at it.

You have an array in your house right now. (And if you don't, WTF IS WRING WITH YOU!?! GO GET ONE!!!)

Its called a fire alarm. Yes, that annoying thing in your hall that goes off every time you burn the toast is a sensor array - a robust container around a sensor. The actual sensor inside that housing is about the size of your finger nail. (Don't believe me, go buy one and crack it open. All there is, is a few wires leading to an SS device.)
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Xenon

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« Reply #21 on: (15:07:56/06-18-15) »
Ok so ultrasound sensor, how does that work?
Ultrasound sensor is a sensor that work in the same way as all other sensors....


and does it like like vision enchancement where if its wireless off it acts like the limit to the perception tests and if its wireless on it adds as a dice pool to perception tests?
What?


.."sensor array" ...
Would that mean that when you use your sensor you can choose use perception or electronic warfare skill.
And you can choose to either limit it by your mental rating or the sensor's device rating.
« Last Edit: (15:10:46/06-18-15) by Xenon »

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #22 on: (15:19:08/06-18-15) »
Don't get padentic over a single word. It doesn't help you or the argument.
I don't think anyone was...

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« Reply #23 on: (15:53:33/06-18-15) »
Xenon: how the RL relates to ficton is anyone's guess.

My point was that the word "array" is a misnomer. An "array" in RL is just a housing unit that holds 1 or more sensors. That is it.

Arguing over a "senor array" VS "a sensor" (by real life terms) is arguing over the same thing.

For SR, the only thing i can think of why they would possibly be different would be a micro-management detail...

That detail would be: you install a "sensor" into something that comes prepackaged with an "array". Which (again based off RL experience) would be things like commlinks, drones, and vehicles.

You would then use the "array" part when attaching a sensor to an item or object that doesn't normally come with a sensor of that kind. (No such thing as a 'universal' housing for a sensor, they are built to the sensor specs.) Such as the ballastic mask in this example.

●●●●
Again, the rules are about as clear as mud, but this seems a little too.... micro-management for everything else they have laid out and feel (personally) that this is another "edit error" that plagued the release. I think the original authur had more info, but the page count won out, and in an effort to shorten it, they didn't clean this area up as goid as they should of.

Long story short: "sensor" and "sensor array" can be used almost interchangably
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Rooks

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« Reply #24 on: (00:19:49/06-19-15) »
Ok so ultrasound sensor, how does that work?
Ultrasound sensor is a sensor that work in the same way as all other sensors....


and does it like like vision enchancement where if its wireless off it acts like the limit to the perception tests and if its wireless on it adds as a dice pool to perception tests?
What?

Ultrasound: The ultrasound accessory consists of an
emitter that sends out continuous ultrasonic pulses and
a receiver that picks up the echoes of these pulses to
create a topographic ultrasound map. Ultrasound is perfect
to “see” textures, calculate distances between objects,
and pick up things otherwise invisible to the naked
eye (like people cloaked by an Invisibility spell), it can’t
handle colors or brightness. It also can’t penetrate materials
like glass that would be transparent to optical sensors.
You can set it to a passive mode, where it doesn’t
emit ultrasonic pulses but still picks up ultrasound from
outside sources, such as motion sensors or someone
else’s ultrasound sensors on active mode (or bats).

Ultrasound Sensor (Rating 1–6) 0.25 [2] 10 Rating x 12,000¥

Ultrasound Sensor: This cyberware is exactly like the
ultrasound sensor. When active, it replaces your normal
vision. It can be switched between active sonar, passive
sonar, and off with a Free Action.

Why does the Ultrasound Sensor have a rating of 1-6 and a capacity of 2?

Reaver

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« Reply #25 on: (01:37:06/06-19-15) »
Off the cuff?

Because, as it states, there is both an emitter and a receiver, 2 seperate devices, thus 2 cap when installing in cybereyes or a device like googles.

As for the rating, see the rules above.
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Xenon

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« Reply #26 on: (03:25:36/06-19-15) »
Why does the Ultrasound Sensor have a rating of 1-6 ...
Because you can use the rating as limit instead of your mental limit, just like all other sensors.


... and a capacity of 2?
You can either install the sensor in your head for 0.25 essence.
Or you can install the sensor in a cyberlimb taking [2] capacity.


...thus 2 cap when installing in cybereyes ...
Ultrasound is not a vision enhancement, it is head ware.
You can only install it in your head or in a cyberlimb. Not in your eyes.

And the Ultrasound Sensor function can be installed in a handheld device that you keep at your belt or whatever. You don't have to install it in your goggles at all. It is not a vision enhancement.


SR5 p. 451 Headware
Items that have a Capacity Cost [in brackets] may be installed in cyberlimbs instead, costing Capacity rather than Essence.

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« Reply #27 on: (10:35:38/06-19-15) »
Meh, i have allowed them in eyes just due to the fact they subvert your normal vision when used.
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Xenon

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« Reply #28 on: (11:03:27/06-19-15) »
Eyes and cyberlimbs don't follow the same capacity scale.
[2] capacity in eyes is not at all the same as [2] capacity in a cyberlimb (but i understand your reasoning).

Also, could make more sense to add them to ears rather than eyes (since you listen to the reflection of the ultra sound you send out). Your "eyes" actually go "blind" (you don't get any sensory input from your eyes) while using the ultrasound sensor headware augmentation.

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #29 on: (14:40:39/06-19-15) »
Think the scene from Dark Knight when he activates the cell-phone sonar system. Two displays come down and cover his eyes so that he can see the display for the system.