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Datajacks, Datajacks, Datajacks - How many do you guys allow?

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toad

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« Reply #15 on: (14:33:49/11-02-14) »
4)
Quote from: SR5 pg 452
Datajack: A datajack gives you a direct neural interface (p. 222), which can be handy in a lot of situations. It also comes with a retractable spool of micro-cable (about a meter long) that lets you directly interface with any electronic device via a universal access cable. Datajacks are equipped with their own cache of storage memory for downloading or saving files. Two datajack users can string a fiberoptic cable between themselves to conduct a private mental communication immune to radio interception or eavesdropping.
Wireless: The datajack gives you Rating 1 noise reduction.

A Datajack can only interface with A (singular) electronic Device.

That seems like quite A leap of logic.  ;)  The bold type are from two different sentences. The "a" sentence is talking about the cable.

These are the type of esoteric rules in hacking/decking that have always seemed intentionally fuzzy, so I can understand your line of thought. But personally I'd align with Herr Brackhaus and Namikaze, that a datajack can talk to multiple wireless devices without a comm/deck.

Namikaze

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« Reply #16 on: (01:31:59/11-03-14) »
Each individual Datajack is still only a single connection to your one and only brain.  Please forgive me for any smugness or pedantry that might become evident in the post to follow.  My reasoning chain follows:

Thanks for the warning.  :)

1)
So, therefore Commlinks or Cyberdecks are Required to form a PAN and possibly attain connectivity to benefit form Wireless Bonuses.

You're looking at the quote very literally.  While I agree that a Commlink or Cyberdeck can create a PAN, I disagree that those are the only devices that can do so.  For instance, a Rigger Control Console can control a fleet of drones via the PAN.  And there's no reason to believe that it cannot be a master at all.

2)
Consequently, while everything can send data out to HOSTS for data analysis to optimise situational performance, not Every device has processing power/Device Rating to handle the data transfer to the Matrix.

Not true.

Quote from: SR5, Page 234
if it’s big enough for a microchip, it’s big enough to house enough computing power to be a device. And if it’s a device, it’s in the Matrix.

So everything big enough to hold a microchip is a device.  And every device has a device rating (as denoted on the Device Rating table on page 234).  Ergo, every device has a rating and can be connected to the Matrix.

3)
Commlink and Cyberdeck charts on page 439 of SR5.

We see clearly, and explicitly, that Commlinks and Cyberdecks have Device Ratings and thus processing Power.

Looking at the Device Ratings table on page 234, you can clearly see that all devices have a Device Rating.  From the lowly toaster to the highest-end cyberdeck.

4)
A Datajack can only interface with A (singular) electronic Device.

If you feel like it, you can look through my post history and you'll see where I made the exact same argument as you did.  In fact, I did it rather brusquely and the conversation got a bit heated as a result.  My argument was that a datajack has to be connected via fiber optic cable to a commlink, which hosts the PAN.  However, based on conversations that I've had with developers and with Bull (the Missions coordinator and employee of Catalyst), I was corrected.  A datajack can host multiple devices, provided the connection is wireless.

5)
Headware chart on page 453 of SR5.

Datajacks definitely have NO Device Rating or it would be listed in the table.

Datajacks don't need a device rating on that table because it's on the Device Rating table on page 234.

Now we pair up SR terminology with some RL terminology that mot tech-heads understand to contextualize their functions.  Interface (input and output hardware)/DNI, Router (center point for a small-scale network)/PAN, Processor/Device Rating, and Connectivity (benefits gained for communicating between hardware)/Wireless Bonus.  So Datajacks and their forefather the electrode serve a the user's Interface, while the Commlink and their big brother the Cyberdeck serve as the PAN's Router, and the Wireless Bonus is the benefits gained from connectivity with the Matrix.

I'm what you might call a tech-head (I've got 25 years of IT experience, about 10 years of programming experience, and about 10 years of system and network administration experience), so I get the terminology.  Unfortunately for this logic, none of the technology of 5th edition has any basis whatsoever in reality.  In fact, at the beginning of the Matrix chapter it explicitly states as much:

Quote from: SR5, Page 214
The paradox of the Matrix is this: to be an ace hacker, you need to understand it—but no one really understands it.

So'ka?

I do not think that means what you think it means.  What I believe you meant to ask is "wakarimasu ka?" which means "do you understand?"  What you instead said was akin to "I get it?"  Honestly, if anything about your post came off as belligerent, it's this because A) the phrase is not correct and B) the phrase is unnecessary.  Saying it in a foreign language assumes that either I speak Japanese (which I do somewhat okay) or that I'll spend the time necessary to look it up.  It's totally unnecessary and a little insulting.
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Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

Lucean

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« Reply #17 on: (04:22:48/11-03-14) »
Namikaze, it's a common phrase of street slang in Shadowrun, so the use itself shouldn't be seen as insulting. Although you are right, it's use at this point of his posting was wrong. Page 15 CRB lists it with the translation you gave.

Namikaze

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« Reply #18 on: (12:09:11/11-03-14) »
Yes, it's part of Shadowrun slang.  But it's pretty obvious (at least to me) that it was intended to be a sort of barb.
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Namikaze

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« Reply #19 on: (04:40:51/11-04-14) »
Oh, I give people the benefit of the doubt.  Probably more than some around here.  But when the post starts with "I apologize if this is going to sound smug or pedantic," it's kind of like saying "with all due respect."  No one ever starts a respectful statement with "all due respect."  If you want to continue this discussion about how I post, what I post, and such....  send me a PM.  You've now derailed two separate threads on this topic.
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Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #20 on: (05:21:24/11-04-14) »
I would SO allow a character to a) get as many datajacks as they wanted, and b) stack the noise cancellation, while c) connecting all those 'jacks into essentially the same system, i.e. their 'deck.  OH hell yes.

Because any Black IC (and maybe some grey) they encounter is going to receive a +1 modifier for each 1 to Noise Reduction they stacked, for every one of its screw-your-brain-up rolls.  You wanted to run hot, well, this is as hot as it gets ...
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8-bit

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« Reply #21 on: (10:41:12/11-04-14) »
I would SO allow a character to a) get as many datajacks as they wanted, and b) stack the noise cancellation, while c) connecting all those 'jacks into essentially the same system, i.e. their 'deck.  OH hell yes.

Because any Black IC (and maybe some grey) they encounter is going to receive a +1 modifier for each 1 to Noise Reduction they stacked, for every one of its screw-your-brain-up rolls.  You wanted to run hot, well, this is as hot as it gets ...

Gotta live life on the edge; go big or go dead. Err...

Anyway, that sounds like a really good drawback. Any biofeedback damage gets extra damage, because you basically wired your brain even more closely to your devices.
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Dr. Meatgrinder

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« Reply #22 on: (21:19:23/11-04-14) »
I would SO allow a character to a) get as many datajacks as they wanted, and b) stack the noise cancellation, while c) connecting all those 'jacks into essentially the same system, i.e. their 'deck.  OH hell yes.

Because any Black IC (and maybe some grey) they encounter is going to receive a +1 modifier for each 1 to Noise Reduction they stacked, for every one of its screw-your-brain-up rolls.  You wanted to run hot, well, this is as hot as it gets ...

Gotta live life on the edge; go big or go dead. Err...

Anyway, that sounds like a really good drawback. Any biofeedback damage gets extra damage, because you basically wired your brain even more closely to your devices.

By that logic, anyone with an implanted deck or commlink should just reroll now.  Or any hot-sim module, because it's designed exactly for jacking your brain into the Matrix.

Sure, a single datajack isn't that much money and Essence, but by the time the decker stacks as many as you seem to worry about it adds up.  Also, a datajack is a device you have to connect to your PAN to get a wireless bonus, and you can only do so much of that (DRx3 slaved devices).
Guiding principle for game balance:  Players avoid underpowered stuff and flock to overpowered stuff.
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8-bit

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« Reply #23 on: (21:37:19/11-04-14) »
I just can't win. Your points are good though. Especially the slaving limit, I forgot about that.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #24 on: (02:45:24/11-05-14) »
Yes, you're correct, Meatgrinder - hot sim modules &c. are meant to tie you in tighter to the 'trix - and that's what they do, and you can take lethal damage from them, as compared to the Stun Only cold-sim gives you.  But it still is going 'only one route'.

The difference between cold and hot sim is all the limiters.  With cold sim, you can only spike so high, you can only push so strong a signal through.  Remove those limiters (go hot), and everything can get through - in both directions.  Your temperature gauge is removed, so instead of it maxing out at 120°, it can scald you with 180° water.  That doesn't change how much water can come through, only the temperature range.

The difference between one datajack and three (or six, or ten, or twenty) is how much water is coming through at once.  If you have a flow trouble on one line (i.e. noise), you're still getting a steady enough flow on #2 and #3 to make up for it - they counteract the loss of the flow.  The total amount you're able to handle may not change, but it will always be getting through.  Which means if you're getting hit by IC, the code is going to have an easier time damaging you - because that signal is always getting through.

If you do decide to combine the two, then yeah - flatline city, population you.  But don't confuse quantity (multiple jacks) with quality (hot sim).  ;)
Pananagutan & End/Line

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The_Hyphenator

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« Reply #25 on: (01:18:14/11-06-14) »
I would SO allow a character to a) get as many datajacks as they wanted, and b) stack the noise cancellation, while c) connecting all those 'jacks into essentially the same system, i.e. their 'deck.  OH hell yes.

Because any Black IC (and maybe some grey) they encounter is going to receive a +1 modifier for each 1 to Noise Reduction they stacked, for every one of its screw-your-brain-up rolls.  You wanted to run hot, well, this is as hot as it gets ...

That's...a pretty genius solution to the problem, actually. I don't have any players who are munchkin enough to go the multiple datajacks route, but if I did, I'd probably hit them with something like this.

Longshot23

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« Reply #26 on: (05:32:21/11-06-14) »
About due for my signature Stupid QuestionTM - is a Firewall in a Datajack pointless?

Lucean

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« Reply #27 on: (07:00:15/11-06-14) »
It already has a Firewall, due to being a Device. Devices have Data Processing and Firewall equal to their Device Rating, so that would be 2 for a standard Datajack, rising to 5 for deltaware.
You can slave it to your commlink and get a Firewall of up to 7 with the Fairlight.
« Last Edit: (07:02:13/11-06-14) by Lucean »

8-bit

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« Reply #28 on: (11:16:38/11-06-14) »
It already has a Firewall, due to being a Device. Devices have Data Processing and Firewall equal to their Device Rating, so that would be 2 for a standard Datajack, rising to 5 for deltaware.
You can slave it to your commlink and get a Firewall of up to 7 with the Fairlight.

Or slave it to your deck and get up to a Firewall of 10 with the Fairlight Excalibur. I get your point though.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #29 on: (21:03:38/11-06-14) »
Which only works against attacks on - not through, but on, or against - that particular piece of 'ware, e.g. to shut your datajack down.  A great tactic to shut you out; not so good if you want to melt their brain.  ;)
Pananagutan & End/Line

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"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

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