NEWS

Acuracy and Bayonet

  • 14 Replies
  • 2886 Views

ShadowMaster

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 56
« on: (21:34:50/06-12-14) »
The Bayonet in Run & Gun doesn't list an accuracy. Has there been any clarification on what' it's supposed to be?

Ursus Maior

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
    • Paper und Pen - Wargaming and Roleplaying
« Reply #1 on: (06:07:09/06-13-14) »
As do so many modifications...  :-\

No definitve answer has been given so far. Two rules come to mind, though: It's basically a combat knife (Acc 6) or it's just a knife or survival knife (Acc 5).

Still, they shoul have really given some stats for the add-on weapons. Hello UGL!
Liber et infractus

LionofPerth

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
  • That's Mind Taking Baby!
« Reply #2 on: (08:11:39/06-13-14) »
I would actually look at the staff, which is Accuracy 6 as well, for fighting with a bayonet.

Some of the weapons do need a little more detail, and truth be told, I think a few more options could have been added in. Spears, pole hammers, pole axes and the like.
When in doubt, C4.

Namikaze

  • *
  • Freelancer Ltd.
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 4068
  • I'm a Ma'fan of Shadowrun!
« Reply #3 on: (12:28:45/06-13-14) »
There is an Accuracy listed for fighting in melee with ranged weapons.  Rifles and such (which can mount bayonets) are given an Accuracy of 5.  Pistols and other smaller firearms are given an Accuracy of 4.  I'd probably go with that.
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

LionofPerth

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
  • That's Mind Taking Baby!
« Reply #4 on: (10:43:37/06-14-14) »
There is an Accuracy listed for fighting in melee with ranged weapons.  Rifles and such (which can mount bayonets) are given an Accuracy of 5.  Pistols and other smaller firearms are given an Accuracy of 4.  I'd probably go with that.

I took that to means more.... bashing attacks,, using the stock, rather than anything else. Though if this is the case, seems like a good place to start.
When in doubt, C4.

Namikaze

  • *
  • Freelancer Ltd.
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 4068
  • I'm a Ma'fan of Shadowrun!
« Reply #5 on: (12:05:37/06-14-14) »
There is an Accuracy listed for fighting in melee with ranged weapons.  Rifles and such (which can mount bayonets) are given an Accuracy of 5.  Pistols and other smaller firearms are given an Accuracy of 4.  I'd probably go with that.

I took that to means more.... bashing attacks,, using the stock, rather than anything else. Though if this is the case, seems like a good place to start.

That is exactly what it means.  But using a weapon designed for ranged combat in melee is unwieldly at best - bashing or not.
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

LionofPerth

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
  • That's Mind Taking Baby!
« Reply #6 on: (12:41:22/06-14-14) »
[suspicious][/suspicious]
There is an Accuracy listed for fighting in melee with ranged weapons.  Rifles and such (which can mount bayonets) are given an Accuracy of 5.  Pistols and other smaller firearms are given an Accuracy of 4.  I'd probably go with that.

I took that to means more.... bashing attacks,, using the stock, rather than anything else. Though if this is the case, seems like a good place to start.

That is exactly what it means.  But using a weapon designed for ranged combat in melee is unwieldly at best - bashing or not.

Agree to disagree?

On some level it's just a shorter spear, you can be pretty precise with one of those.

Of course, I would defer to those who have actually trained to use a bayonet, should they come forward.
When in doubt, C4.

Joush

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 371
« Reply #7 on: (01:01:21/06-26-14) »
[suspicious][/suspicious]
There is an Accuracy listed for fighting in melee with ranged weapons.  Rifles and such (which can mount bayonets) are given an Accuracy of 5.  Pistols and other smaller firearms are given an Accuracy of 4.  I'd probably go with that.

I took that to means more.... bashing attacks,, using the stock, rather than anything else. Though if this is the case, seems like a good place to start.

That is exactly what it means.  But using a weapon designed for ranged combat in melee is unwieldly at best - bashing or not.

Agree to disagree?

On some level it's just a shorter spear, you can be pretty precise with one of those.

Of course, I would defer to those who have actually trained to use a bayonet, should they come forward.

The thing is it hugely varies from weapon to weapon. Using a bayonet with  Mosin Nagant is an easy, conformable operation. It's a long, well balanced rifle that offers a good grip. An M-4 carbine with a bayonet fixed is good for morale* and given enough aggression can be an effective melee weapon, but it would be far less so then a short land pattern musket.

*In that it's funny.

LionofPerth

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
  • That's Mind Taking Baby!
« Reply #8 on: (10:12:44/06-26-14) »

The thing is it hugely varies from weapon to weapon. Using a bayonet with  Mosin Nagant is an easy, conformable operation. It's a long, well balanced rifle that offers a good grip. An M-4 carbine with a bayonet fixed is good for morale* and given enough aggression can be an effective melee weapon, but it would be far less so then a short land pattern musket.

*In that it's funny.

It's something to think about, would you agree that the longer the weapon, the more precision you can have, as a generalisation?
When in doubt, C4.

Kincaid

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2623
« Reply #9 on: (10:17:49/06-26-14) »

The thing is it hugely varies from weapon to weapon. Using a bayonet with  Mosin Nagant is an easy, conformable operation. It's a long, well balanced rifle that offers a good grip. An M-4 carbine with a bayonet fixed is good for morale* and given enough aggression can be an effective melee weapon, but it would be far less so then a short land pattern musket.

*In that it's funny.

It's something to think about, would you agree that the longer the weapon, the more precision you can have, as a generalisation?

I think that sort of thinking conflates Accuracy with Reach.
Killing so many sacred cows, I'm banned from India.

LionofPerth

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
  • That's Mind Taking Baby!
« Reply #10 on: (10:51:01/06-26-14) »

The thing is it hugely varies from weapon to weapon. Using a bayonet with  Mosin Nagant is an easy, conformable operation. It's a long, well balanced rifle that offers a good grip. An M-4 carbine with a bayonet fixed is good for morale* and given enough aggression can be an effective melee weapon, but it would be far less so then a short land pattern musket.

*In that it's funny.

It's something to think about, would you agree that the longer the weapon, the more precision you can have, as a generalisation?

I think that sort of thinking conflates Accuracy with Reach.

Not necessarily, I want to try and get some information from someone with first hand experience before I suggest anything. It might be that some weapons are in fact, unwieldy, but long, so for that bonus to Reach, they loose accuracy, that shorter weapons might in fact be, apart from highly comical, highly precise. I'd just like a clear picture of two factors, before I add a third in.
When in doubt, C4.

ZeConster

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2555
« Reply #11 on: (10:59:29/06-26-14) »
There is an Accuracy listed for fighting in melee with ranged weapons.  Rifles and such (which can mount bayonets) are given an Accuracy of 5.  Pistols and other smaller firearms are given an Accuracy of 4.  I'd probably go with that.
I took that to means more.... bashing attacks,, using the stock, rather than anything else. Though if this is the case, seems like a good place to start.
Which table is that? All I can find is the Improvised Melee Weapons table in R&G, which lists rifle butts as having 3 Accuracy, not 5.

Namikaze

  • *
  • Freelancer Ltd.
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 4068
  • I'm a Ma'fan of Shadowrun!
« Reply #12 on: (11:26:14/06-26-14) »
It's possible that I was wrong about the Accuracy, but I would have sworn I'd seen something in Run & Gun about this.
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

Joush

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 371
« Reply #13 on: (23:27:42/06-26-14) »

The thing is it hugely varies from weapon to weapon. Using a bayonet with  Mosin Nagant is an easy, conformable operation. It's a long, well balanced rifle that offers a good grip. An M-4 carbine with a bayonet fixed is good for morale* and given enough aggression can be an effective melee weapon, but it would be far less so then a short land pattern musket.

*In that it's funny.

It's something to think about, would you agree that the longer the weapon, the more precision you can have, as a generalisation?

I think that sort of thinking conflates Accuracy with Reach.

Not necessarily, I want to try and get some information from someone with first hand experience before I suggest anything. It might be that some weapons are in fact, unwieldy, but long, so for that bonus to Reach, they loose accuracy, that shorter weapons might in fact be, apart from highly comical, highly precise. I'd just like a clear picture of two factors, before I add a third in.

It's not just length, but also ergonomic factors. It's very easy to grip a Mosin–Nagant and employ it in a normal bayonet drill. An M-4 is harder to do the same with, and more awkward to use in a bayonet drill. It simply doesn't offer as good a grip on the forend, lacks heft, and it's shorter.

This isn't to say a long rifle is automatically better. You'd need to look at things case by case. Reach is important, but I'd say that accuracy would be more a factor of the ergonomics of the weapon when used as a melee weapon. Few modern weapons are very good at this, simply because there isn't a whole lot of call to stab someone with a gun.

LionofPerth

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
  • That's Mind Taking Baby!
« Reply #14 on: (03:05:15/06-27-14) »
It's not just length, but also ergonomic factors. It's very easy to grip a Mosin–Nagant and employ it in a normal bayonet drill. An M-4 is harder to do the same with, and more awkward to use in a bayonet drill. It simply doesn't offer as good a grip on the forend, lacks heft, and it's shorter.

This isn't to say a long rifle is automatically better. You'd need to look at things case by case. Reach is important, but I'd say that accuracy would be more a factor of the ergonomics of the weapon when used as a melee weapon. Few modern weapons are very good at this, simply because there isn't a whole lot of call to stab someone with a gun.

So then perhaps considering it an improvised weapon with a very limited accuracy would seem to be the better path here. That certain weapons, say.... assault rifles and battle rifles are capable of adding some element of Reach to it, they're still not particularly designed for, in comparison to older weapons.

I think in that case, I would have to go with the Accuracy of 3 then. It's not exactly, as described, the easiest way to use a modern rifle. Should there be any exception, I think we can list them on a case by case basis.
When in doubt, C4.