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A beef with some missions: Amount of Pay

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Bull

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« Reply #15 on: (01:45:57/09-09-10) »
The Pay scales are a bit...  Wonky.  Part of this is due to the fact that there wasn't a pay scale that was implemented and adhered to during Season 3, so the pay varied greatly depending on the writer.  And part of this was due to Table Rating scaling the pay.  I've found that most groups that are unhappy with the pay tended to run at lower table ratings, so that hurts things.  When pay is TR*2000, and your negotiation bonuses are TR*250, there's a world of difference between Table Rating 2 (4,000, with 500 per hit) and Table Rating 6 (12,000 with 1500 per hit).

Things will be a bit more even in Season 4. 

Bull

Casazil

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« Reply #16 on: (01:49:29/09-09-10) »
What ever you do keep a limit on how many success count in negoations for that money heh I know people that can an will get 10+ success.
"If at first you don't succeed blame someone else"
Joel "Casazil" Rogers
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Bull

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« Reply #17 on: (01:56:30/09-09-10) »
Yeah.  I ran into this with the version of 03-12 that went to Origins.  Just to cover our bases in the future, there needs to be a blanket rule that says soething like "Unless stated otherwise, 5 is the max cap on Negotiation Successes" or some such :)

That, and the Johnsons all need much better negotiation scores :)

Bull

Casazil

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« Reply #18 on: (02:04:19/09-09-10) »
Well yes all your Mr Johnsons need high negotiations good charisma and of course list the emotion software to their commlinks at of course rateing 6 as every face has that.
"If at first you don't succeed blame someone else"
Joel "Casazil" Rogers
Catalyst Demo Team Shadowrun Special Agent #251
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/CasazilsShadowrun/

The Masked Ferret

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« Reply #19 on: (06:23:05/09-09-10) »
I ran into a number of NPCs, some of them Johnsons, who could be negotiated with that had no negotiation skill or influence sg to do so with. I will have to look up an example before I can give it, but there was more than 1 negotiation test that the NPC had to default to charisma! A good face can capitalize on that like nobody's business.
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FastJack

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« Reply #20 on: (09:36:40/09-09-10) »
Honestly I think pay and karma are pretty good my character has amassed like half a million ........ok he's an adept he don't buy jack lol.

but hey there is money to be had.
You need to get yourself a big 'ol Weapon Focus with money like that... ;)

Faradon

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« Reply #21 on: (09:53:46/09-09-10) »
Yeah.  I ran into this with the version of 03-12 that went to Origins.  Just to cover our bases in the future, there needs to be a blanket rule that says soething like "Unless stated otherwise, 5 is the max cap on Negotiation Successes" or some such :)

That, and the Johnsons all need much better negotiation scores :)

Instead of just a flat 5 net success max, I'd like to suggest something a little more enticing.  Before just "complaining" about the money / adventure I was doing some research into other published runs (on the run, Dawn of the Artifacts, Denver Missions, etc.) and really liked the mechanic of "For every net hit you can do one of the following:
1) Raise the pay by X (be it a percentage or a flat increment.
2) Increase the up front portion of the pay to cover expenditures
3) Have the Johnson provide something needed (asked to blow up a building, johnson provides some explosives)
4) Johnson provides information they might otherwise be reluctant to give up initially (A helpful contact info, pictures / video footage, whatever.)

#'s 1 and 2 should probably always be an option.  3 and 4 are more situational based on who the Johnson is, how much they know, and what they are capable of.  
The Denver mission where negotiation hits let you get access to gear over availability 12 per hit is a pretty nice perk and would like seeing more things like that.  

Turtletron

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« Reply #22 on: (13:00:06/09-09-10) »
Yeah.  I ran into this with the version of 03-12 that went to Origins.  Just to cover our bases in the future, there needs to be a blanket rule that says soething like "Unless stated otherwise, 5 is the max cap on Negotiation Successes" or some such :)

That, and the Johnsons all need much better negotiation scores :)

Instead of just a flat 5 net success max, I'd like to suggest something a little more enticing.  Before just "complaining" about the money / adventure I was doing some research into other published runs (on the run, Dawn of the Artifacts, Denver Missions, etc.) and really liked the mechanic of "For every net hit you can do one of the following:
1) Raise the pay by X (be it a percentage or a flat increment.
2) Increase the up front portion of the pay to cover expenditures
3) Have the Johnson provide something needed (asked to blow up a building, johnson provides some explosives)
4) Johnson provides information they might otherwise be reluctant to give up initially (A helpful contact info, pictures / video footage, whatever.)

#'s 1 and 2 should probably always be an option.  3 and 4 are more situational based on who the Johnson is, how much they know, and what they are capable of. 
The Denver mission where negotiation hits let you get access to gear over availability 12 per hit is a pretty nice perk and would like seeing more things like that. 


It's a good way to use the negotiation successes, i'm taking notes ;D
(>) ...and I would have made it too, except for those nosey kids & their stupid dog...
(>) excerpt of The Smiling Bandit's taped deposition, Knight Errant casefile #E385h-0516

Casazil

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« Reply #23 on: (17:13:30/09-09-10) »
While this could work the catch (which in this case is minor) is to not put too much into the Negotiation options that it takes the players time to decide what to do.

Time is finite at a con
"If at first you don't succeed blame someone else"
Joel "Casazil" Rogers
Catalyst Demo Team Shadowrun Special Agent #251
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/CasazilsShadowrun/

Bull

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« Reply #24 on: (19:34:37/09-09-10) »
While this could work the catch (which in this case is minor) is to not put too much into the Negotiation options that it takes the players time to decide what to do.

Time is finite at a con

Agreed.  While I'd love to do more with negotiations and such, there's a lot to be said for KISS.

Bull

The Masked Ferret

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« Reply #25 on: (02:41:06/09-10-10) »
While this could work the catch (which in this case is minor) is to not put too much into the Negotiation options that it takes the players time to decide what to do.

Time is finite at a con

Agreed.  While I'd love to do more with negotiations and such,  there's a lot to be said for KISS.

Bull

Well, you could include an 'additional successes' sidebar, which gave them the rewards similar in style to the above system, but based only on the number of successes. Players roll high, GMs check for additional bonuses. This could account for all levels of skill, and would even work with the static target numbers.
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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #26 on: (23:26:44/09-13-10) »
I know at some conventions, GMs are willing to fit in as many as 8 (We have crazy amounts of people showing up for SR events :))

I showed up hoping to get into a particular game at DC, and immediately saw the GM had at least 8-9 folks sitting around him.

I turned around and played something else. No way I was going to subject that poor GM to more.

 :o



-karma

Wasabi

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« Reply #27 on: (07:16:09/09-17-10) »
If the face is going to be capped at 5 net hits cap combat and investigation at 5 hits too. Make it so even a 200 karma character with a singular focus they love can only get 5 hits. While I hope my sarcasm transfers to this page but I mean, c'mon.

Instead, make it a diminishing return. That way it skews income a little but less than an openended roll.

Have the award be TR*x*net hits up to 5 ...then HALF-TR*x*net hits PAST 5.
Alternately have it be TR*x*net hits up to 5 ...then y*net hits PAST 5 where Y is a static number.

Mitigate but dont eliminate. Let folks who want to be pornomancers see reduced effect past 5 hits but make it less arbitrary. Some folks like being a face and even an uber face.

In a TR6 game the Johnson gets 6 extra dice to begin with so in a TR6 game I dont know what the typical hits would be by the Johnson but I'd calculate the worst-case-scenario payout based on a pc pool of 26 dice to get a sense of what a runner could make with whatever you decide on.

And be careful if adding Emotisoft software and such...while not a bad idea the characters should lose moneyif the Johnson gets net hits and not every team has a face.
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A.A. Salati

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« Reply #28 on: (08:11:47/09-17-10) »
Everything has a limit to how successful it can be.  Blasting someone with your panther cannon with 10 net hits will kill them just like 1 net hit can.  It won't kill their children or their twin who lives in another city or do anything other than exceed their overflow and cause death.  ;)

Negotiation is not purely mechanical or a matter of dice.  It's an economic relationship and should be fun without getting crazy.  Mr. Johnson's available funds do not go up because someone he's hiring used tailored pheromones on him.  In fact, speaking of fun, look for some unconventional negotiation openings...  they won't always be Johnson vs. Face = resulting cha-ching.
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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #29 on: (16:33:40/09-17-10) »
Yeah, combat and investigation tends to have binary results. Dead/not dead, success/fail.

Negotiation has degrees of success.

You can't necessarily compare the two.




-karma

player of a 20+ social die pool character