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91
...He ignored the DR part but I'm not sure what you mean.  That's just how armor works...

Basically, that.

There's no new ground to cover with how armor works/doesn't work.  I didn't go there because we just went in circles in the other thread, and didn't think it'd be any different here.  So, yeah.  I'm getting off this merry-go-round.

Quote
...is it weird that armor increases the DR against a  stun bolt? to me, sure, but its a new edition they changed how magic works again...

Also, that.  Ok, so armor adds to DR.  Wierd? I think so too.  Is it a mistake? Well, it sure looks to be deliberate.  And yes, as I tried to make the point: there ARE new meta-physics as of this edition.  This appears to be one of the new changes to how magic "works".

92
You appear to have ignored about 2/3rds of my points there, SSDR.

He seems to have answered the core issue.  Its easier to heal, normally it doesn't work on drain, but if you take a stim patch it heals the drain and when the damage comes back its no longer drain damage and therefore can be healed. And in 6e healing is generally easier for mages than it was in 5e.

For that workaround, I don't know anyone who reads it that way, but hey I can see it.  Its not specific in that the damage that comes back is the same type it was before. I think its clear that's what it is supposed to be, and the lack of specificity IMO does not mean the damage now isn't drain damage. But hey, RAW I guess. It would make the rule that you can't heal drain entirely pointless, but go on if that is what you want, it's your game.  And once you have that handled your rate of gaining edge to heal stun damage is kind of moot. Yeah its likely slow but you wont need it to heal drain, take a stim patch and then heal the stim patch damage with a medkit.

He ignored the DR part but I'm not sure what you mean.  That's just how armor works.  It effects your DR but does nothing to help with your resistance, whether its a punch, a gun, a spell etc. (outside fire mods etc) is it weird that armor increases the DR against a  stun bolt? to me, sure, but its a new edition they changed how magic works again.  I'm not a fan of the thematic changes to things like this, I think having to see the target should matter not just the point of origin of the AoE. Is it easier this way, probably, but its not shadowrun.  But even under older editions if the defense of a armor could represent the bulk of the armor you could in the thematic level say it effected how well the mage could sync with the targets aura, so eh its not the same rules but it kind of fits with the settings lore on magic.
93
Play-by-Post / Players Looking for Play by Post (looking for GM)
« Last post by joe15552 on <02-20-20/2037:44> »
I wanna play a PBP game. My character idea is flexible, but basically, I wanna play a sexy rage-metal male human. If magic is not in your game, then my character is going to be interested in it and studying it. He is gonna be tech-heavy (or technomancer heavy) and charismatic. Physical combat is not super great, but he enjoys smashing things with a sledge hammer (but not a professional melee expert). He is definitely going to have some hacking prowess. Necromancer style sprites and persona. I can reliably post every other day, if not more.

Gms, name your favorite edition, and magic/resonance preferences and parameters.
Players, talk about your character a bit to gain GM interest in running a new game.
94

In shadowrun, the big thing I see a lot are dice pools... There are endless arguments out there that you "need" a dice pool of 15 to be effective. Only to have those people told they are idiots and you need a dice pool of 22!!! But no... the 22 dice pool people are idiots - you need 30!!! - and on it goes...

First off. Not everything is a test in Shadowrun.
You don't need a driving test to go to the market to get your loaf of Soy-bread.
You don't need a Social test to buy that soy-bread...
You don't need a matrix test to surf You-Porn (and lets be honest. That's 80% of the matrix traffic... just like today :D )



Absolutely valid points.  There are always more dice, and no matter how many your PC throws the GM has more.

And correct most wage slaves probably go a week or more without doing anything so strenuous as to cause an actual dice check.  But there are millions of them in the 'plex.  But just imagine an XL class of 100 kids doing their first Pivot Table.  It would be a mass casualty event of exploded monitors, dump shock and rogue AIs turned lose. 

But I agree with your main point, once you get past the silly low end dice pool probability stupidity, Dice pools don't really matter.  If the table is mostly 8 to 12 dice and everyone is having fun, you're doing it right.  In spite of my power-gamery ways I do get that the fun is the thing.
95
Previous Editions / Re: (SR5) Gear freaks, list your fave setup
« Last post by BeCareful on <02-20-20/1950:03> »
Most of what I pick depends on who's using it, but I have some standby stuff:

-Nonconductivity 5 in any armour (Non-stick, un-shockable!)

-Chemical protection in the greatcoat/fashionable cloak (protecting from acid rain or incoming Narcojet)

-Ballistics mask/helmet with a micro cam & mic, microtransceiver, and any vision enhancement not already in my contacts/smartglasses (I encourage the whole team to get this so that we can see each others' POVs in AR)

-Grenade full of smoke gas/bleach/glue/Ultra-Glide (why default on Throwing Things when you can just drop it & run?)

-Different-coloured clips mags so I know which kinds of ammo go in which ones without needing RFID tags on them.

-Smartlink circuitry installed in real eyes, for the runners who're paranoid about cybereyes.

-If I have the money for it, a microdrone with ultrasound. If not, I'll put ultrasound in armour or the helmet.

-If someone on my team doesn't have one, I'll spring for biomonitors for everyone! Share your real-time health status on your Friends Only Group-chat to legally metagame everyone's condition monitors!

-300 nuyen for two R6 stim patches, and 500 more for a trauma patch. Doesn't preclude a medkit or two.

-Howevermuch it costs to explicitly have a backpack/tool belt/tactical thigh pouch (or a fanny pack if you have to call it that). Having explicit storage space should come in handy, not to mention a briefcase for a breakdown weapon.

-Only 10 nuyen for a roll of duct tape and a refillable lighter. 5 for ten zip-ties, in case you need anything/one secured.

-Multiple credsticks. Basic ones to drop as I'm running away from muggers and I don't want to fight back; gold/platinum ones to flash around in fancy places, even if they're empty.
96
FWIW, in regards to percentages being used to predict dice roll outcomes and why they are (or are not) accurate representations of game mechanics. There is a distinct difference between "statistical " and "probable" models using single die statistics to reflect and encompass the outcomes of multiple dice rolls (specifically with "glitch " and "critical glitch" mechanics) factored in. The odds of obtaining a wildly successful roll compared to an utterly abysmal failure depends entirely on the amount of dice rolled for that test resolution.
97
Previous Editions / Re: (SR5) running modifiers
« Last post by Reaver on <02-20-20/1816:27> »
yes.

Or, at least your reading of the rules is correct.

I believe the thinking goes like this:

Hitting a moving target is harder than a stationary target (very true if you have any experience at shooting), as you have to lead the target and anticipate where the target is going so that your bullet intercepts the target.

Thus, the Defender receives a +2 DP modifier, as he is moving (the faster he is moving the bigger the bonus)

The Shooter, firing at a moving target, has a harder shot to make thus the -2 DP.

in the other two examples (cover and shooting into melee) there are different factors.

For cover. Generally the target isn't moving, but there is a large object preventing you from seeing to hitting the full target.

Think back to just about every action movie ever where they are shooting down a hallway. They are not standing out in the middle of the hallway shooting at each other (no cover). They are peaking out of doorways exposing only their head, should and arm , firing off a shot or two and ducking back in. (+4 DP to defense)

Of course, nothing saying that a defender couldn't have multiple modifiers, if the situation calls for it.

SAY:
You're on level ground, and look across a field to see an enemy security guard in a trench. He spots you, and begins sprinting down the trench he's in to get to a panic button.

Well, the Guard is across a field. (Range modifiers)
Sprinting (+4)
has partial cover from the trench (+2)

So now, to shoot that guard, you are at a negative DP of -4 (plus range modifer!)
and the Guard is +6 DP

Hope you're a good shot!

when shooting into melee....

Who is at a dis-advantage?
The defender as some guy in his face, punching kicking biting stabbing him, taking his attention up... and now someone is shooting at him! (possibly from outside his view range! Damn bullets can travel pretty friggin far!!)
Because his attention is taken up by the guy that is trying to turn his face into a meat patty, the defender is -3.

note the blurb on page 190 "shooting into melee" Its not all fun and games as there is chance you could shoot your buddy too!

98
OK, First off...

using an example with averaged stats is fine. In fact it should be the norm. When you have to "optimize" to be effective.. then, in my opinion, there is a flaw in a game design, or a break down in the understanding of the word "Effective"....

OR, to put it another way....


There is more then one way to skin a cat... and if you can only skin it one way, then its NOT a cat...

To be fair, I've only encountered a few games that scale from "Average Human" to "Superhuman" particularly well.  Most games break down at one end or the other.  Strict RAW Shadowrun quickly fails at normal person levels.  Or at least results in a lot of Critically glitching Wage Slaves doing moderately difficult tasks.

"It was a good day, only 8% of the work force was Critically injured.  Most of them will be back to work in a week!"

When you're looking at a world where Dice Pools of 2 and 3 are pretty standard, the Critical Glitch rules result in a lot of weirdness if strictly enforced.

True. Most systems do require to you build something a little beyond the average "person" in their game. And that is normal, after all the trope is the characters are more then the average person (they are a PC!!)

To use a the old staple of Gaming (DnD), I am not saying that you should be able to have 9s in everything and do as much as someone who as 15s in every stat....
BUT, if you have to put a 16 into 3 stats just to play the class..... then something is wrong with the class.



In shadowrun, the big thing I see a lot are dice pools... There are endless arguments out there that you "need" a dice pool of 15 to be effective. Only to have those people told they are idiots and you need a dice pool of 22!!! But no... the 22 dice pool people are idiots - you need 30!!! - and on it goes...

First off. Not everything is a test in Shadowrun.
You don't need a driving test to go to the market to get your loaf of Soy-bread.
You don't need a Social test to buy that soy-bread...
You don't need a matrix test to surf You-Porn (and lets be honest. That's 80% of the matrix traffic... just like today :D )


Don't get me wrong.. its fun picking up that mountain of dice, giving them a shake or two before unleashing the pain is all part of the fun. I get that...

I don't know... Maybe I'm old. Maybe I've got a good GM.. Our table is mix of high powered characters (transfers through multiple editions), low karma characters, and even a guy in middle (well, as best a middle as you can). Dice pools range from 9 for our "Newbie", to 42 for the adept. And yet he makes it work, and we all have fun...
99
Strict RAW Shadowrun quickly fails at normal person levels.  Or at least results in a lot of Critically glitching Wage Slaves doing moderately difficult tasks.

"It was a good day, only 8% of the work force was Critically injured.  Most of them will be back to work in a week!"

When you're looking at a world where Dice Pools of 2 and 3 are pretty standard, the Critical Glitch rules result in a lot of weirdness if strictly enforced.

This has been my experience too. Hobbes just put it more humorously than I would.

Low-powered games are my favorite, but my experience has been that you shouldn't limit the dice pools of the players (for the reasons Hobbes stated); instead you should scale the expected dice pools of the opposition. This changes the weight of certain modifiers (environmental, cover, Edge, etc. depending on edition) but sidesteps the lulz of glitches and crit glitches every time someone throws a punch.
100
And by extension, if your DR means you denied your attacker an edge, that means in effect you're already up 2/3rds of a net hit (compared to being naked) because you denied edge.

so your entire premise rests on the fact that there's a huge difference between 1/3 point of damage and 2/3 point of damage?

Come on Stainless you're better than that.
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