Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Inconnu on <03-22-12/1216:58>
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A heavily modded pistol made to contain anti-material rifle rounds. Loads 5 bullets, materials cost 3k.
Damage-
10p -7 ap
Notes- Requires a strength+body of ten or higher in order to fire without injury. If STR+BOD, modded up for recoil comp is less than 10, deals 4p damage to the wielder. If more than 10, deal 15-Str,-bod,-recoil comp s.
May not take any special ammo besides Gel or caseless.
Thoughts?
A few of mine-
4p may be too little.
On the other hand, it could do that and then fly out of your hand....
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Ouch my poor cyberwrist, if it is using anti-material rifle rounds I think it could only load 1 bullet at a time and it would have a concealability of a machine pistol or more. if you want a hand shattering weapon just mod your Rugger Super Warhawk for High-Power rounds
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Well, if you didn't make it reloadable maybe it could load 2!
To be serious, i agree. This is more anti-troll than anti-material. ;D
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/50BMG_size_comparison.JPG/191px-50BMG_size_comparison.JPG)
This is basically what you're talking about shooting. It is a 20mm round which is basically an assault cannon round.
I have a sneaky suspicion that a pistol barrel will not be long enough for the gasses to accelerate that round before it simply blows out of the barrel impotently.
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Well the first would be, how does it load the bullets?
A .69 caliber anti-material rifle round is going to be larger than almost any modern pistol. Think about it, you're talking about a round that just in diameter is almost twice the size of a 9mm (.69 caliber is roughly 17.55mm. 9mm is .354 caliber roughly), and in length is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 100mm if it follows normal conventions (roughly 3.9 inches. Keep in mind that a standard 9mm is going to be 19mm or a fifth of that).
Normal Magazines/Clips are going to be straight out if you're looking for something easy to carry at all. Personally, I think the only way to make it feasible would be single shot break action (the way the significantly shorter 12 guage pistol in the game is done).
Now then, let's look at the force coming out of the gun. A .50 BMG (smaller than what you're going for) can produce up to 15,000 foot pounds of force. A .44 Mag (one of the more powerful handguns) only produces about 1,500 and is considered a wrist snapper for weak folk. Assuming the amp up in power doesn't only increased the force by a bit, you're still looking at a magnitude of ten here where in terms of strength, even a maxed out Troll is only going to twice as strong as a really strong human. Five times the strength of an average human if he's max auged on Str. So the question becomes, who is this gun built for? Anti-material rifles have bipods and stocks for taking that recoil. Firing something like this, even two handed, would likely knock you off your feet and shatter your wrists. AM rifles getting into this range have been known to break collarbones despite the bipods and shockpads.
Next, let's also look at pure physics. Putting a giant round is a small gun is not going to create the same effect as putting a giant round in a long gun. This is simple math when you get down to it, but the bullet traveling down the barrel after deflagration ups the velocity it will be traveling at when it exits the barrel. By taking away the vast majority of the barrel, you would lose a huge chunk of the damage that anti-material rifles deal. Sure it would be impressive damage, but not anywhere near what a normal AM rifle deals even if it uses a smaller round.
Now, last let's look at the stats. There are two major problems with the stats. 1.) They don't realistically fit due to the issues discussed above, and 2.) They are in no way, shape, or form balanced. Both are vital to designing anything for a game. So jumping straight in, it deals more damage than the anti-material rifle in the game (Barret deals 9P/-4AP) despite having practically no barrel to build up muzzel velocity and has better penetration, and it holds more rounds than the most powerful pistol in the game (Hatamoto II holds one round in break action).
I recommend just taking a Super Warhawk and slapping the High Power Chambering on it for an 8P/-3AP revolver if you're just wanting a huge pistol feel, but the stats for this one are way off (Keep in mind that a High Powered, the mod makes it use bigger more powerful bullets, Barret is only 11P/-5 AP which puts it 2 AP below yours and only 1 damage above it despite a good foot and a half to two feet of barrel difference.
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Erm,10 barrel extentions! ;D
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Heavy pistols in Shadowrun are already heavily favored in comparison to other, larger, weapons (submachineguns, assault rifles, etc), in terms of what their damage code/AP is versus their realistic caliber size, barrel length, etc, etc.
I don't think Shadowrun really needs a super mega customized pistol that's almost on par with a full-on sniper rifle. You can already get a ridiculously powerful hand cannon just by fiddling around with the existing, canon, firearm creation rules and starting with something nasty.
In both your proposed ammunition and your proposed handgun, here, you are drastically upsetting the balance of weapons, damage, armor, capacity for soak, etc, in the Shadowrun universe. That is probably a bad idea.
You will be marginally -- perhaps not substantially, but at least theoretically -- better off using canon rules for firearm customization. You can still build some really nasty pieces of work, there, but you're at least a bit less likely to completely throw things out of wack that way.
And I'm not just making these suggestions to bust your chops. I know you're pretty new to the game, and excited, and all of that's awesome. But whenever you design a new piece of gear like this, you have to ask yourself "What if someone shoots it at a PC," not just "Wow, won't it be awesome when my PC shoots this?" Because all these suggestions you're making, for new guns and new ammo, are pretty nuts, and -- on average, over the course of a campaign -- no one takes more hits than player characters, right? No single character in an adventure gets attacked as many times as a PC. So what happens when every weapon is a .79 caliber monstrosity shooting min-grenade bullets that explode inside you and ignore armor?
You get dead PCs and not a lot of fun, that's what.
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My suggestion for this is a gyrojet-style bullet. Make it break-action double barrel, with limited propellant to clear the barrel before a mini-rocket takes over the real work
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Thoughts?
Totally and utterly overpowered and has no place in the game
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Follow this link here (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/11/23/wts-50-bmg-pistol/) and gaze in awe at the WTS .50 BMG from Waffentechnik in Suhl GmbH. It weighs 7.2 kg (16 lbs.), is 24.21" in total length, and loads a single round... Or you can follow this link here (http://s4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/ar/t8960) and gaze in wonder at the Thunder .50 BMG, which is also of truly stupendous (or, maybe just "stupid") length, mass, and caliber.
Now, I mentioned offhand in another thead that I was a Gunner's Mate in the USCG. I specialized in small arms repair, which mostly meant pistols, rifles, and shotguns (my babies!). But they also made sure I knew my way around the worky bits of the other personal weapons we used. This means I got to play with the occassional .50 BMG rifle... but nothing in .79 caliber. Ever. That's because the only thing in that caliber in use by the USCG is the Mk 38 25 mm chain gun... the pirmary weapon system of the Island class patrol boat.
The .50 Browning Machine Gun (.50 BMG) round is massive. Massive. Full-sized rifles designed to fire it are almost always be single shot weapons with a very few (such as the famous Barrett M95) using five-round magazines. The only "handguns" built for this round are, truth be told, largely meant as "jokes" for smallarms designers (and if you know any normal gun geeks or engineers, you should know that those two are already kinda nutty. Now, combine them.)
[spoiler="Compare and Contrast](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg/300px-Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg)[/spoiler]
A .79 caliber cartridge will have an outside shell diameter and inside barrel diameter of 0.79 inch (20 millimeters). The projectile (cannot really call it a "bullet" at this point) for these weapons is typically 75–127 mm (3-5 inches) long. Overall cartridge length is typically 75–152 mm (3-6 inches) long. You are not going to lift five of these rounds in one hand, let alone fire them from anything handheld...
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The last time pistols saw calibers like that, it was in the days of single-shot muzzleloaders.
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deffinately a troll sized pistol, or full body cyborg
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The last time pistols saw calibers like that, it was in the days of single-shot muzzleloaders.
Um, not quite... Although musket calibers ranged from 0.5 inches (13 mm) to 0.8 inches (20 mm), handguns of the era used much smaller calibers. There is also a world of difference between a Brown Bess with its 18 mm musket ball and its 160 yard maximum effective range and a 20×102mm autocannon shell with a muzzle velocity in excess of ~1,000 m/s (~3300 ft/s) and ranges measured in fractions of a mile.
True enough, Shadowrun doesn't really represent the full range of calibers available in the real world, with 95% of all any given weapon category doing the same damge, although if you have a copy of War! you can model heavier caliber weapons with that mod. But no assault cannon pistols. No. Just... no.
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True enough, Shadowrun doesn't really represent the full range of calibers available in the real world, with 95% of all any given weapon category doing the same damge, although if you have a copy of War! you can model heavier caliber weapons with that mod.
Not really, all you do is waste 2 perfectly good mod slots and restrict your gun to only one ammo type that isn't even that good.
Now if they have instead added something like this:
Higher Caliber
Gun is modified to fire higher caliber bullets then it normally does, this gives the gun +1 to DV.
Ammo capacity is reduced by 25%(round up)
2 10 shop Weapon price + 2500¥ 10R
That would actually be an usefull "mod".
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True enough, Shadowrun doesn't really represent the full range of calibers available in the real world, with 95% of all any given weapon category doing the same damge, although if you have a copy of War! you can model heavier caliber weapons with that mod.
Not really, all you do is waste 2 perfectly good mod slots and restrict your gun to only one ammo type that isn't even that good.
Now if they have instead added something like this:
Higher Caliber
Gun is modified to fire higher caliber bullets then it normally does, this gives the gun +1 to DV.
Ammo capacity is reduced by 25%(round up)
2 10 shop Weapon price + 2500¥ 10R
That would actually be an usefull "mod".
Sounds cool, do you mind if I snag that and post it on my website to share with my players? I'll credit you.
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Sounds cool, do you mind if I snag that and post it on my website to share with my players? I'll credit you.
Go ahead.
Great if someone gets use out of it, don't actually get to use any of my custom gear stuff myself, as i dont have a game.
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Thank you! XD
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Um, not quite... Although musket calibers ranged from 0.5 inches (13 mm) to 0.8 inches (20 mm), handguns of the era used much smaller calibers.
Dealing with old flintlock pistols, the most common I've seen were .45 and .54, but after that came those in the .62 to .65 range. Some of the bigger ones ranged from .75 to .85. Of course that has nothing to do with a modern cartridge, but just wanted to point out that many pistols were designed to fire the same ball as the owner's musket to make carrying both easier (carrying one pouch of shot is much easier than carrying two, those things get heavy).
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This was possible because of a separated powder charge.
And of course black powder has a lot lower power than modern propellant.
-k
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Oh I wasn't supporting the idea of a modern .79 pistol that uses rifle rounds (although theoretically I guess a .79 pistol round could be developed, it would just have the ballistics of a brick past a few dozen yards and only do roughly what a shotgun slug does), I was just pointing out that flintlocks did exist in those calibers. Though, those pistols were best used as clubs the accuracy was so horrible. The smaller caliber pistols were generally far far more accurate.
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You might also be confussing the caliber of the bore with the caliber of the ball fired; prior to the invention of the Minnie Ball, most flint-, match- and wheellocks fired projectiles a good bit smaller than the bore. Anyhoo, doesn't really change the point that a .79 caliber pistol would be all sorts of bad.
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Would it shoot through schools?
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really wanting that Warhammer 40K Bolt Pistol are we?
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really wanting that Warhammer 40K Bolt Pistol are we?
The boltgun (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Boltgun) is only a .75 caliber weapon. ;)
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If all else fails for practicality's sake, it would probably make on hell of a thrown weapon. BONK! THUD!
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Which? The gun or the bullet?
Either way, +1! Or 2 if i remember.