Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: t-man on <03-11-12/1625:15>
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Hi ;D
I have a problem with option called "choke "in shotguns
a) how many bullets shotgun consume in narrow, medium and wide spread? and what is the number of uncompesated recoil?
b) choke is an additional option to shotgun with SA/BF/FA modes, like Mossberg AM-CMDT ? Or this mode replacing someone?
c) "choke" option is for all shotguns? or only for these with BF or FA mode?
Maybe its trivial but my google-fu didn't give me clear answers. I will be grateful for any help
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Hi ;D
I have a problem with option called "choke "in shotguns
a) how many bullets shotgun consume in narrow, medium and wide spread? and what is the number of uncompesated recoil?
b) choke is an additional option to shotgun with SA/BF/FA modes, like Mossberg AM-CMDT ? Or this mode replacing someone?
c) "choke" option is for all shotguns? or only for these with BF or FA mode?
Maybe its trivial but my google-fu didn't give me clear answers. I will be grateful for any help
Mind quoting where you found the option in the rulebooks? I know what choke does on a real shotgun (just helps determine how spread out the shot is), but I don't recall the mention in the books.
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Hi ;D
I have a problem with option called "choke "in shotguns
a) how many bullets shotgun consume in narrow, medium and wide spread? and what is the number of uncompesated recoil?
b) choke is an additional option to shotgun with SA/BF/FA modes, like Mossberg AM-CMDT ? Or this mode replacing someone?
c) "choke" option is for all shotguns? or only for these with BF or FA mode?
Maybe its trivial but my google-fu didn't give me clear answers. I will be grateful for any help
Choke is optional for all shotguns that use the special ammunition needed for that. Its in addition to the SA/BF/FA modes and uses as many "bullets" as determined by the fire rate.
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Choke is not a firing mode, so it doesn't affect recoil any differently than normal, nor does it take more than one shot. "Choke" is basically how they handle the scatter of a regular buckshot round -- it only takes one round, but it shoots a bunch of BBs that can spread out.
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think of it as the old refilled spray you had at home, the small part at the top you set the spread with by turning
right or left that the choke
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Okay, time for more info than you ever asked for...
A shotgun is a firearm, normally designed to be fired from the shoulder, thus it is a "longarm," as oppossed to weapons meant to be fired from one hand (hence "handgun"). They take their name from their most common ammunition, a paper or plastic shell that contains a number of small spherical pellets called shot. Shotguns can also fire a solid projectiles called a slug, it isn't proper terminology but a slug can basically be thought of as a really big bullet. Shotguns are also extremely verisitle and dozens of special rounds exist for them.
The caliber of shotguns is measured in terms of gauge*. The gauge number is determined by the weight, in fractions of a pound, of a solid sphere of lead with a diameter equal to the inside diameter of the barrel. So, a 10 gauge shotgun nominally should have an inside diameter equal to that of a sphere made from one-tenth of a pound of lead. By far the most common gauge in realworld use and fiction is the 12 gauge (with a 0.729"/18.5 mm diameter)
[spoiler="*"]The UK and its (other) former colonies measure shotgun caliber in bore, which is calculated by different means. I don't know how they do it in any non-English language). But that's neither here nor there.[/spoiler]
The main thing to understand about shotguns in Shadowrun is that, like all firearms, they've attempted to recreate cinematic gunplay and shave some rather boring complexity about ballistics and such in oder to a make an already complex game that much simplier. So Shadowrun just sort of handwaves guage, shell-length, muzzle velocity, and all that boring crap that only gun guys and gun gals (like yours truly) care about. Ranges are reduced to "Hollywood Distances," everyone can share ammo, etc. The only really complex part of Shadowrun's scatterguns are its ammo types and choke.
Shot
As I said before, shotguns are used to fire multiple small spherical pellets called shot at once. The Shadowrun rules treat this as flechette ammunition, because for game mechanics this works best, although in real world the effect is rather different. A shotgun is loaded with shells, plastic or paper cartridges that to grossly simpilfy things, contain the gunpowder that makes everything go "bang!" and a variable number of pellets. They are broken down into two basic types: birdshot and buckshot. Birdshot will be a dozen to several dozen very small BB's and is mostly used for hunting, well, birds. Buckshot is much larger, used for hunting large game (like, say, bucks) and is generally what police, private citizens, and, rarely, soldiers, will shoot at bad guys with. Buckshot comes in various pellet numbers too. The Shadowrun rules basically model buckshot and ignore other shot types.
I want to to mentally picture that classic image of an American (or Canadian) deer-hunter with his trusty 12-guage shotgun. You can see it right? Inside his weapon will be several shells of 00 Buckshot (read as "double-aught") 00 Buckshot pellets are about 8.4 mm (.33") in diameter and a shell will general have between 6-9 pellets. Shadowrun treats all shot ammo as flechettes, so if you load up the double-aught, follow those rules.
Choke
Because shot pellets are small, round, and delivered without spin, is very inefficient ballistically. A 9mm bullet from a typical handgun is also small, but it is aerodynamicly shapped and spinning, making it a very efficient "flyer" (so to speak). But a the shot leaves the barrel of a shotgun it begins to disperse in the air, resulting cloud of pellets is known as the pattern or spread. The ideal pattern would be a circle with an even distribution of shot, with a density sufficient to ensure enough pellets will hit the target to achieve the desired result, such as breaking a clay target or killing Bambi's mom. To get that ideal pattern - or reasonably close to it - the shooter needs to be able to control the dispersal of the shot, we do this by a constricting the openning at the end of the barrel with a interchangeable tube known as a choke. This post is getting long enough already, so I'll skip over the details, but with differing degrees of constriction the shooter gets different patterns. With my 12ga. Wingmaster, and a pocket of choke tubes, I can use the same gun and ammo to get a 30" diameter spread at 20 yards range, for busting clay targets up close; swap chokes for the same diamter speard at 40 yards, for hitting clay pigeons at a distance; swap tubes again for some turkey hunting, which requires long range shots with very small spreads in order to the small head and neck of the bird.
Shadowrun, as I said before, follows "Hollywood Physics" for guns... and in Hollywood a shotgun uses its choke to let Bruce Willis shoot a multiple stuntmen at the same time! Shadowrun also lets users change the size of their choke "on the fly" thanks to scifi gun construction and smartlinks. The Shadowrun choke rules are based on the Hollywood image and only work when the gun is firing flechette ammo.
Slugs
A shotgun slug is a heavy lead projectile, it puts big holes in things. The default damage values fof most Shadowrun shotguns are listed to assume slug ammo. 8P baby!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Brenneke.jpg/250px-Brenneke.jpg)
A cut-away look at a 12 gauge slug shell
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Cal12_N%C2%B08.jpg/220px-Cal12_N%C2%B08.jpg)
A transparent plastic 12 gauge birdshot shell. Buckshot would appear similar, but with far fewer, and much larger, pellets.
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If SR followed real Hollywood Physics, people hit by shotguns would fly back <10-Body> meters, either flying through glass or landing on a table which would shatter when they hit it*.
(*If none was present before the gun was fired, it would magically appear.)
Why is this not so? :(
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@Xzylvador: Because the designers of Shadowrun are following a different genre of Hollywood films. One where you do need to reload and can even *gasp* die!
Shadowrun more Die Hard meets Patriot Games (with a touch of Hong Kong Heroic Bloodshed) than Commando. But the point still stands that the rules for firearms place gameplay and Rule of Cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool) above such mundane concerns like ballistics and myriad combinations of ammunition.
I guess we can argue all week about the methods and inspirations of the designers, but m,y main point was to shed a little bit of light on how shotguns work in the real world to the OP, who I presume has little to no expereince handling firearms in his or her own life... and certainly not shotguns. Things like shot, slugs, choke and spread, are kinda key to understanding how scatterguns work.
SR's spread rules are certainly grounded more in Hollywood than Real Life. If shot actually spread at the angles it does in this game, I could go duck hunting while shooting sideways. :o But in the SR universe, there are only slugs, special rounds, and a sort of magical buckshot that travels in nice, neat step-pyramid-shaped cones. ;D
Oh well, still my favorite form of bang-bang in-game and in life.
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@ Ajax: Thumbs up for the throughout explanation on shotguns.
@ Xzylvador: Maybe the writers of SR has heard about the laws of physics? You know action equals reaction and it would be sad if you yourself would fly backward when firering said shotgun (and thanks for making me laugh).
Rasmus
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If SR followed real Hollywood Physics, people hit by shotguns would fly back <10-Body> meters, either flying through glass or landing on a table which would shatter when they hit it*.
(*If none was present before the gun was fired, it would magically appear.)
Why is this not so? :(
Bad Game Master 8)
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If SR followed real Hollywood Physics, people hit by shotguns would fly back <10-Body> meters...
So if they have Body 11+ they fly forward?
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If SR followed real Hollywood Physics, people hit by shotguns would fly back <10-Body> meters...
So if they have Body 11+ they fly forward?
Your math-fu is amazing!
Funny but true, you are indeed correct.
A body of 11+ would be an enormous mass, over 33% of which is fat.
The impact that would make others fly back does actually start to propel your fat backwards, but here pesky things like earth's gravity and your enormous bodies own gravitational pull come in effect.
With insufficient force to pull you backwards and off the ground, a slingshot effect is generated: your body mass gets pulled back, strains and stretches and is then launched in opposite direction. In this case, forward.
With your body still trying to balance against the backwards force (and with the fact that anyone with such a high body score MUST have a logic of 2 at most so your brain is too slow to see this coming), you'll even add to this effect and almost 'leap' forward.
This is why shotgunning a troll in the face should only be done from a safe distance.
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This is why shotgunning a troll in the face should only be done from a safe distance.
If a troll gets shotgunned in my game...
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If SR followed real Hollywood Physics, people hit by shotguns would fly back <10-Body> meters...
So if they have Body 11+ they fly forward?
Your math-fu is amazing!
Funny but true, you are indeed correct.
A body of 11+ would be an enormous mass, over 33% of which
You calling my troll 'fat'???
I'll have you know he has a very high protein diet consisting mostly of small children and the heads of brainy, smart mouthed individuals that make fun of his 450kg weight.
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You calling my troll 'fat'???
I'll have you know he has a very high protein diet consisting mostly of small children and the heads of brainy, smart mouthed individuals that make fun of his 450kg weight.
That's a pretty high mercury-filled diet he has then... Does he stuff them with Ground Dolphin?
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You calling my troll 'fat'???
I'll have you know he has a very high protein diet consisting mostly of small children and the heads of brainy, smart mouthed individuals that make fun of his 450kg weight.
That's a pretty high mercury-filled diet he has then... Does he stuff them with Ground Dolphin?
Only baby dolphins, with kitten demiglasse and puppy's eyes appies to start.
Who said a barrens born troll can't learn high fashion cooking skills? All it takes it a cleaver, a note book, crayons, and a roofing hammer!
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The crayons serve as an appetizer and the notebook as a napkin.
It's a body 11+ troll, after all.
Is Humanis still open to new members?
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Who said a barrens born troll can't learn high fashion cooking skills? All it takes it a cleaver, a note book, crayons, and a roofing hammer!
As I recall, Mr. Johnson grew up dreaming of cullinary delights. After making his fortune in the world of AAA-Corporate catering he was able to realize his dream in a form never seen before! In his specially constructed magical lodge / cooking arena, called "Kitchen Stadium" in his penthouse. There, visiting chefs from around the world (recruited by various shadowrunners) would compete against his Gourmet Academy, the CHROME CHEFS!
Master of the dandelion salad, dandelion wine, dandelion sushi, and um... well, just dandelions, really... Chrome Chef Elven: Xandir P. Wifflebottom!
Prince of Pasta, regent of ramen, king of kraft foods, he can't cook without a microwave, but we're sponsored by Ares©... Chrome Chef Human: Neon Samurai®!
Artisinal brewer of a thousand forms of beer, several of which are bullet-proof (two which are banned uned UN Treaty)... Chrome Chef Dwarf: Willow Ufgood!
Oh, sweet jesus... is that a double barrel Panther Cannon!? My agent didn't say anything about this... um... okay, I;ll read it... Chrome Chef Troll:Brugby. (Please don't hurt me!)