Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Lichtbringer on <03-07-12/1816:56>
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Hi,
my rigger recently got his hands on a light military grade armor, since he has to spend more and more time "in the field" and outside the safety of his rigger coccon. I was wondering if there is any kind of armor upgrade that would allow his armor to "stiffen" when he jumps into a drone or vehicle and prevent him from collapsing and falling over (as long as nobody pushes him). Something akin to a foot ankor, but instead of only securing his feet, his whole body (or rather the armor the body is in) become immobile), making it harder to notice that the rigger has jumped into anything, as well as preventing him from waking up with his face in the dirt.
(I really hope it is somewhat understandable what I am trying to say. I tried several times, but could not come up with a better way to explain the whole idea in English, sorry)
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Not any kinda of armor lock, but check out the Are-Segway Terrier from Arsenal, or the Horseman PMV from the same page.
-k
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I already had considered getting a PMV and turn it into some sort of "chariot" but according to the GM it would not be suitable for many indoors areas due size issues. While, to my understanding, a pmv with a human inside would still get through every door & co that is big enough for a troll I did not object. He is the GM and it is not like he let's get me away with some crazy stuff on other occasions.
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I already had considered getting a PMV and turn it into some sort of "chariot" but according to the GM it would not be suitable for many indoors areas due size issues. While, to my understanding, a pmv with a human inside would still get through every door & co that is big enough for a troll I did not object. He is the GM and it is not like he let's get me away with some crazy stuff on other occasions.
That's weird. I could've sworn that corporate types IRL would go around the office on those (the really high falootin' ones that is).
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The PMV cannot move through areas that are not wheelchair accessible. :P
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I already had considered getting a PMV and turn it into some sort of "chariot" but according to the GM it would not be suitable for many indoors areas due size issues. While, to my understanding, a pmv with a human inside would still get through every door & co that is big enough for a troll I did not object. He is the GM and it is not like he let's get me away with some crazy stuff on other occasions.
That's weird. I could've sworn that corporate types IRL would go around the office on those (the really high falootin' ones that is).
Well I agree with you, GM just doesnt. Though he might have been just worried that I'll turn the Horseman into some kind of Battlemech. A fear that might, or might not have been warranted *g*
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Well I agree with you, GM just doesnt. Though he might have been just worried that I'll turn the Horseman into some kind of Battlemech. A fear that might, or might not have been warranted *g*
One of my Players made what has been termed "The Horseman Of The Apocalypse".
I stated, outright, "Five minutes after that thing hits the streets and opens fire, the Metroplex Guard will be rolling out. In heavier and faster gear than you've even seen."
He rolled it around in his head for a bit, and went, "That's fair.", and worked on something else.
I believe it's designed for malls, however, rather than office buildings. Use the Segway for that. ;)
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May I ask what he did put into that PMV? (No, I won't use it myself, my GM would not let me anyway *g*)
But also trying to get back to topic:
Is there any mod/way to archive this? Or simply not doable with that kind of gear? (Was it even understandable what I planned to do?)
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May I ask what he did put into that PMV? (No, I won't use it myself, my GM would not let me anyway *g*)
But also trying to get back to topic:
Is there any mod/way to archive this? Or simply not doable with that kind of gear? (Was it even understandable what I planned to do?)
Something so you just stand there when you go VR, rather than falling over in a heap?
Not do-able by RAW, as far as I know, and the easiest 'patch' ruling would involve Military-grade armor with powered servos. That's why Riggers usually stay in the van.
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my rigger recently got his hands on a light military grade armor, since he has to spend more and more time "in the field" and outside the safety of his rigger coccon. I was wondering if there is any kind of armor upgrade that would allow his armor to "stiffen" when he jumps into a drone or vehicle and prevent him from collapsing and falling over (as long as nobody pushes him). Something akin to a foot ankor, but instead of only securing his feet, his whole body (or rather the armor the body is in) become immobile), making it harder to notice that the rigger has jumped into anything, as well as preventing him from waking up with his face in the dirt.
Mobility and Strength upgrades for your armor integrate additional servo-motors and hydraulic pumps. Any of those that assist movement, can of course also be configured to impede it. Ie. a (Strength Upgrade) > (your body) might give enough internal structure to keep you from moving, with the foot anchor giving enough stability to prevent you from falling.
But it would probably take a simple action to set it up: Anchoring and stiffening. Plus you would still be a nice standing target. But i don't see a problem in house-ruling it, with the already available modifications.
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The Iron Will from attitude is a vehicle, so it should be able to be set to a rigid state. Simply set up a command to disable movement when you go into VR. It's an exo-skeleton, but if you aren't a troll of orc, you shouldn't have any issues that trolls and orcs don't.
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The Iron Will from attitude is a vehicle, so it should be able to be set to a rigid state. Simply set up a command to disable movement when you go into VR. It's an exo-skeleton, but if you aren't a troll of orc, you shouldn't have any issues that trolls and orcs don't.
Actually, it's listed as having no form of autonomous movement, which is why it's a vehicle that's treated as armor.
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Having it effectively set to Park and lock up isn't movement though. It has to have this function or getting in and out of it would be practically impossible.
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If I understand Iron Will correctly (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=5533.0), I could simply "wear" it over my militar grade armor, have the desired function, vastly increased strength and lose only 1 point in agility? That sounds a bit too good, even if it makes you much more visible. Since you can mod it like a vehicle, you could even add stealth mods.
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Yeah, the Iron Will is enormously FUBAR'd, and it's not a good idea to poke around with it.
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It's very easy to break the Iron Will, but ya it can be worn over normal armor and take vehicle mods. It has six mod slots, so you can technically slap on Armor 12, Personal Armor and Chameleon Coating with some room to spare.
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If I understand Iron Will correctly (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=5533.0), I could simply "wear" it over my military grade armor, have the desired function, vastly increased strength and lose only 1 point in agility? That sounds a bit too good, even if it makes you much more visible. Since you can mod it like a vehicle, you could even add stealth mods.
Just remember, it sets your effective strength to 8 regardless of your current strength. It's also hugely heavy and probably makes big *whrrrr**thoom* noises every time it takes a step, and there's no mods to make things quieter that I know of.
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White Noise generator? Would not cancle the noise, but mask it with more "harmless" noises. And even if would be very audible..when you run around it what pretty much can be turned into an Elemental Poweramored Infantry the need (and most likely desire) for stealth is lost. I just can't see how you can use such a thing (without adding house rules) without it becoming game breaking.
I might try to suggest Lethe's idea, though if I may ask one mroe dumb question..which book has the rules for the mentioned mobility and strength upgrades for armors?
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I might try to suggest Lethe's idea, though if I may ask one mroe dumb question..which book has the rules for the mentioned mobility and strength upgrades for armors?
They are all in Arsenal p.51.
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why don't you just save up and purchase an Otomo. That way you can go anywhere a normal person can, ignore all damage below the (drone's) armor rating, and look exactly like yourself while remaining safe in your rigger cocoon. only problem would be faraday cages since signals can't get there.
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I might try to suggest Lethe's idea, though if I may ask one mroe dumb question..which book has the rules for the mentioned mobility and strength upgrades for armors?
They are all in Arsenal p.51.
Thanks, don't know how I missed them. Only locked at the mods that come before the mil. grade armor.
why don't you just save up and purchase an Otomo. That way you can go anywhere a normal person can, ignore all damage below the (drone's) armor rating, and look exactly like yourself while remaining safe in your rigger cocoon. only problem would be faraday cages since signals can't get there.
With 24R the Otomo is too hard to get for our team (the max is 20, and even that is a stretch). Also I would need more than 10 runs to come up with the money, and that is without subtracting the living and supply costs.
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And don't forget there are some jobs that it still isn't viable to just lay around while jumped into the Otomo. Traipsing around a south American jungle for instance.
Thanks, don't know how I missed them. Only locked at the mods that come before the mil. grade armor.
A lot of people miss them. I think its because the table for them is missing from the section they're in.
I just can't see how you can use such a thing (without adding house rules) without it becoming game breaking.
It really just depends on the GM's ability to adapt and what the other players are running around in.
The way I look at it personally, is that it's not really any different than the same character sitting outside in the van except: A) The Van will have more body, B) The Van will have more Armor, and C) The Van has more slots for things like signature reduction, personal protection, ECM, ECCM, etc.
Then again, I'm used to riggers always staying in the vehicle. I played one for years in SR3 that never left his vehicle, provided team transport via a secondary vehicle, and arrived at meets via drone. The group did not meet him face to face for almost a year and a half in game and were shocked to discover the first fat elf they'd ever seen.
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Then again, I'm used to riggers always staying in the vehicle. I played one for years in SR3 that never left his vehicle, provided team transport via a secondary vehicle, and arrived at meets via drone. The group did not meet him face to face for almost a year and a half in game and were shocked to discover the first fat elf they'd ever seen.
That how I though Rigger would work,yet my group seems to disagree and drag my butt always into the fire. I don't think I have killed one target with my combat drones since they are considered to be drawing too much attention. The only time I can actually be a "real" rigger is while driving the car...luckily I get plenty of chances to do that with quite a bit of action.
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My favorite take on the rigger was a friends character. He had 3 vehicles/drone: a fast damn car, a heavily armored truck, and a helicopter with speed mods. No drone legions, just a driver that made Fast and the Furious look like Hot Wheels.
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My favorite take on the rigger was a friends character. He had 3 vehicles/drone: a fast damn car, a heavily armored truck, and a helicopter with speed mods. No drone legions, just a driver that made Fast and the Furious look like Hot Wheels.
You mean he had the three main vehicles of The A-Team?
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My favorite take on the rigger was a friends character. He had 3 vehicles/drone: a fast damn car, a heavily armored truck, and a helicopter with speed mods. No drone legions, just a driver that made Fast and the Furious look like Hot Wheels.
Got all that except the helicopter. Those seem to be too vulnerable, easy to track and hard to find a secure landing place
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I dont know why but the focused one-with-my-vehicle-adrenaline-junkie just fits what I think most riggers would end up being like, and it requires far less computer and hacking skills too, so you can actually have them be mechanics/armorers/demolitions.
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The problem is..we don't have a real hacker and have to do that as well. We have one muscle, 4 magic users and my rigger. I often have to do jobs neither my character nor myself (rule knowledge wise) are qualified for.
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With 24R the Otomo is too hard to get for our team (the max is 20, and even that is a stretch). Also I would need more than 10 runs to come up with the money, and that is without subtracting the living and supply costs.
that's easy. You guys are a runner team. Do some legwork and find one in the city you base out of. In some corp facility, or sercurtiy firm, or even coming from the factory. And do a run to snatch/disable and grab/hack and steal/ one.
Problem solved.
That's how my group gets around the REALLY high avalibily numbers, when we Really can't afford it. Altho our GM is also REALLY good at blowing up our gear so we are always looking for stuff.
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With 24R the Otomo is too hard to get for our team (the max is 20, and even that is a stretch). Also I would need more than 10 runs to come up with the money, and that is without subtracting the living and supply costs.
that's easy. You guys are a runner team. Do some legwork and find one in the city you base out of. In some corp facility, or sercurtiy firm, or even coming from the factory. And do a run to snatch/disable and grab/hack and steal/ one.
Problem solved.
That's how my group gets around the REALLY high avalibily numbers, when we Really can't afford it. Altho our GM is also REALLY good at blowing up our gear so we are always looking for stuff.
We have considered doing those kind of hits, but before the rest of the team would agree to go after an Otomo there are much more essential items on their wishlists. After all, they don't think that dragging the rigger along is a bad thing. (It has always worked out so far, just "feels" a bit wrong to play a rigger that fights with a submachinegun and not a combat drone.)
To those who use a helicopter:
Where do land/park it? How do you avoid being tracked midflight (or outright shot down)? Won't you draw attantion from law enforcement / co (at least more than with a ground vehicle)?
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With 24R the Otomo is too hard to get for our team (the max is 20, and even that is a stretch). Also I would need more than 10 runs to come up with the money, and that is without subtracting the living and supply costs.
that's easy. You guys are a runner team. Do some legwork and find one in the city you base out of. In some corp facility, or sercurtiy firm, or even coming from the factory. And do a run to snatch/disable and grab/hack and steal/ one.
Problem solved.
That's how my group gets around the REALLY high avalibily numbers, when we Really can't afford it. Altho our GM is also REALLY good at blowing up our gear so we are always looking for stuff.
The stuff you "five finger discount" is one thing, but if your GM is blowing up gear you paid for with money earned from missions (or even worse, money gotten in creation with BP), you need to have words with him and get this nipped in the bud.
With 24R the Otomo is too hard to get for our team (the max is 20, and even that is a stretch). Also I would need more than 10 runs to come up with the money, and that is without subtracting the living and supply costs.
that's easy. You guys are a runner team. Do some legwork and find one in the city you base out of. In some corp facility, or sercurtiy firm, or even coming from the factory. And do a run to snatch/disable and grab/hack and steal/ one.
Problem solved.
That's how my group gets around the REALLY high avalibily numbers, when we Really can't afford it. Altho our GM is also REALLY good at blowing up our gear so we are always looking for stuff.
We have considered doing those kind of hits, but before the rest of the team would agree to go after an Otomo there are much more essential items on their wishlists. After all, they don't think that dragging the rigger along is a bad thing. (It has always worked out so far, just "feels" a bit wrong to play a rigger that fights with a submachinegun and not a combat drone.)
To those who use a helicopter:
Where do land/park it? How do you avoid being tracked midflight (or outright shot down)? Won't you draw attantion from law enforcement / co (at least more than with a ground vehicle)?
If landing/flying a helicopter is drawing so much attention that it's becoming a nuisance, this is another thing that should be complained about until a stop is put to it (unless you stole it rather than bought it).
Basically, character gear, stats, qualities, contacts and skills bought with BP or with karma/nuyen earned from missions SHOULD be considered sacrosanct and not touched/destroyed/taken by the GM's NPC goons.
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We have considered doing those kind of hits, but before the rest of the team would agree to go after an Otomo there are much more essential items on their wishlists. After all, they don't think that dragging the rigger along is a bad thing. (It has always worked out so far, just "feels" a bit wrong to play a rigger that fights with a submachinegun and not a combat drone.)
To those who use a helicopter:
Where do land/park it? How do you avoid being tracked midflight (or outright shot down)? Won't you draw attantion from law enforcement / co (at least more than with a ground vehicle)?
You, my freind, have My problem. I too play, and yet Don't play, a rigger. The last year and a half of real time I have yet to be able to use more than my fly spy and a few I-Ball drones....... Before that it was always my drones got shot to hell to keep us going and I coudn't afford to replace them. Lately it's been globe hoping so much that I can't bring drones or vehicles with us.......... I finnally got exasperated enough to declare to the Group and the GM that "I AM NOW A SAM!!!" since I have been doing most of the shooting in the group as of late.....
But as to the otomo thing yes, I managed to find one for sale in the weapons bazzare in Lagos on the first part of the "Artifacts" modules. Our Face/adept haggled her little heart out and I got it for a song. But I have yet to be able to use it.........
Oh and as for where to put the helocotper, land it on a building you own. Make sure it has a nice be flat roof and then have a pre-made "knock down" facade shed type building laying around the landing zone. get out reassemble the facade real quick and you are hidden. You could even go the expensive route and add a motorized framework to the facade and have it automatically enclose you when it lands. Just make sure you have a chopper with those colapsable blades..
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We have considered doing those kind of hits, but before the rest of the team would agree to go after an Otomo there are much more essential items on their wishlists. After all, they don't think that dragging the rigger along is a bad thing. (It has always worked out so far, just "feels" a bit wrong to play a rigger that fights with a submachinegun and not a combat drone.)
To those who use a helicopter:
Where do land/park it? How do you avoid being tracked midflight (or outright shot down)? Won't you draw attantion from law enforcement / co (at least more than with a ground vehicle)?
You, my freind, have My problem. I too play, and yet Don't play, a rigger. The last year and a half of real time I have yet to be able to use more than my fly spy and a few I-Ball drones....... Before that it was always my drones got shot to hell to keep us going and I coudn't afford to replace them. Lately it's been globe hoping so much that I can't bring drones or vehicles with us.......... I finnally got exasperated enough to declare to the Group and the GM that "I AM NOW A SAM!!!" since I have been doing most of the shooting in the group as of late.....
It is not that bad, since at least I get to do the car chases & combats. Usually every run ends with on, and the whole team is at the mercy of my car, my driving and my onboard minigun. Often we don't even manage to get to my truck and have to call it into the firefight as heavy support. It is just that besides my cars and a bit of scouting now and then..all of my drones never used.
Oh and as for where to put the helocotper, land it on a building you own. Make sure it has a nice be flat roof and then have a pre-made "knock down" facade shed type building laying around the landing zone. get out reassemble the facade real quick and you are hidden. You could even go the expensive route and add a motorized framework to the facade and have it automatically enclose you when it lands. Just make sure you have a chopper with those colapsable blades..
Our "main camp" would not suite such a situation, we would need a second hang out. Also I would need a copper that can carry up to 8 people has room for the most important upgrades and is within my budget..I don't think I'll find something. Though I am considering getting a boat (our hideout is at a dock with direct water access)..maybe add a bay for a small sub...though that is far down the line.
This is getting rather off-topic but since there are a few fellow riggers here I dare to ask anyway:
Is there anyway to mount a Mitsubishi Yakusoku MRL (or a similar weapon system) to an Armadillo ECM drone? It si one of the few drones I can easily use, would not hurt to give it some long range support weapon. (Plan to use it for Heimdalls to be exact)
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Here's a thought: Disable the movement inhibitors on your simrig and install an attention coprocessor on yourself. Presto, you can walk around paying attention to your surroundings, AND be jumped in. There is precedent, since the Mesh Reality echo allows you to be in VR and still interact with the world.
Now something else to consider about drones/vehicles: A decent* combat drone will set you back ~10k, while an M79B1 LAW rocket costs 750 nuyen.
*Let's say an LEBD1 armed with a Light Machine Gun, minimal mods.
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Of course hitting with the LAW is going to be a problem, unless you just toss it around 12m away and hope to scatter into the target. At least that's my experience with the scatter rules.
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Of course hitting with the LAW is going to be a problem, unless you just toss it around 12m away and hope to scatter into the target. At least that's my experience with the scatter rules.
Have you been remembering to get a sensor lock first?
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Of course hitting with the LAW is going to be a problem, unless you just toss it around 12m away and hope to scatter into the target. At least that's my experience with the scatter rules.
Have you been remembering to get a sensor lock first?
A M72 LAW has a sensor system?
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Of course hitting with the LAW is going to be a problem, unless you just toss it around 12m away and hope to scatter into the target. At least that's my experience with the scatter rules.
Have you been remembering to get a sensor lock first?
A M72 LAW has a sensor system?
*facepalm*
Again with me and the wrong weapons. Was thinking the TOW, not the LAW... since in SR4 all guidance systems have been apparently "upgraded" to radar. Y'know, regardless of the fact that fly-by-wire missiles can't be jammed.
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Keep in mind that locking onto drones with Sensors can be a real pain also. It's almost always going to be at a -3 penalty (-6 for micro-drones/Electric drones) and it's opposed vs. a Infiltration+Reaction test (or whatever is appropriately substituting Reaction). Even with a lock, it only adds net hits to you attack rolls. Assuming an amazing 5 net hits on the drone, that's only a one or two meter reduction on scatter average out of 4D6 - Sensor. So, assuming a rating 6 sensor system, you'd need to roll your Sensor+Perception (we'll assume Sensor 6 and Perception 3 with +6 for Attention Coprocessor/Visual Enhancement 3). You'll be rolling a total of 12 dice (after the penalty for the drone) assuming no other forces are at play. Now, the drone's dice depend on whether it's being driven by the pilot or driving itself. Assuming the best possible case, it's driving itself (Pilot 3+Covert Ops 3) with 6 dice. Average you'll get 2 net hits.
Now on the attack you'll roll Agility+Heavy Weapons (we'll say 8 + 6 + 2 for smartlink +2 for sensor lock hits) with 18 dice. Assuming the same drone is running Defense 3 as well, it rolls six dice. You'll have an average of 4 net hits. Now, you get to roll 4D6 -10 (-6 for sensor 6, -4 for net hits) to see how far your shot goes off course. Keeping in mind, that 1 meter miss is likely to completely miss your target all together. The average result is that you've still missed despite your awesome rolls.
To alleviate this, you need the airburst link, so the scatter roll would be 2D6-10. Considerably more likely to hit, but still not a guarantee despite the critical success on attacking.
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To alleviate this, you need the airburst link, so the scatter roll would be 2D6-10. Considerably more likely to hit, but still not a guarantee despite the critical success on attacking.
Of course, given its availability and price, and the fact that it doesn't require a mod slot, why wouldn't you have Airburst?
And as for having to roll a 11 or 12 to miss... well, misses do happen.
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<summon Force 1 spirit>
"Here, hold this and go stand next to that drone."
-k
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Of course, given its availability and price, and the fact that it doesn't require a mod slot, why wouldn't you have Airburst?
And as for having to roll a 11 or 12 to miss... well, misses do happen.
I just find it odd that you have to have an accessory to make any use at all of the disposable rocket launcher which causes the price to almost double. Adding a sensor suite makes it even more expensive.
As for missing, well yes, misses do happen. The game already has a system for determining if you miss or not though (the attack roll). On a Critical Success through that system, you shouldn't arbitrarily miss due to a completely random second roll.
Karma's got it right. You're better off giving a low force spirit some AT Mines and having it go "cymbal" the drone.
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Karma's got it right. You're better off giving a low force spirit some AT Mines and having it go "cymbal" the drone.
True. Though wouldn't that piss off the spirit to get it Disrupted like that? Or would it be able to vanish before the explosion actually goes off?
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Regarding the original topic..I solved it by simply getting an oderly drone (medical robot chair from arsenal) and fixed it a bit up. The result is pretty much the same a PMV would have been, but my GM seems to be more welcoming to the idea.