Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Millenia on <02-20-12/1554:39>
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My GM has us in an underground smuggler haven, which means I can buy any weapon(mods included, must add labor) as long as I mark it up 20%.
My character is a dual wielding ex-corporate assassin who favors infiltration and pistols on hidden gun arm slides. My question is, what is the most ridiculously upgraded pistol that you can buy(going for straight up damage)? And what is the best way to use it (SS/SA/BF etc.)?
Character context: 4 initiative passes at 22 (24 semi-auto) skill
Note: The only thing vetoed so far is a modded MGL-6 with BF
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Do you have any inherent recoil compensation (Str 6+, 10+, Cyberarm Gyromount, Foot Anchors)?
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No inherent recoil compensation, strength is only 4.
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The best pistols for most purposes are the Yamaha Sakura Fubuki for Stick-n-Shock and the Ruger Thunderbolt for general use. Check my sig and the Gunslinger for good guns.
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Well I'm a big fan of :
Streetline Special
[High Power Chambering, Internal Silencer, Personalized grip]
for a cheap throwaway gun. It does the damage of an AR in the package of a hold-out and is pretty cheap (700¥).
You could change it to a Cavalier Deputy (would increase the cost to 1250¥) to fit your Semi-Auto specialization.
Technically you can do the same thing with SnS with stun damage with no mods and better AP, if you like SnS ammo.
Technically you could take a
Eichiro Hatamoto II
[High Power Chambering, Internal Silencer, Peronalized Grip]
It's a single shot though (wouldn't get your Semi-Auto spec) but it does 9P/-2.
If you're a real glutton for abuse you could just take a Predator and slap the large firing mod into it for FA. You'd be able to fire Long Bursts and Full bursts, but wouldn't have much Recoil Comp at all (could get one point from EF or Pers. Grip). A Long burst would deal 10P/-1 but be at a -5 (4 with a recoil comp point) penalty. A full burst would be at 14P/-1 but a -9 (or 8) penalty.
There is also the Thunderbolt that Umaro mentioned. It won't work with your specialization, but you can take small firing mod for FA, internal sound supressor, and electronic firing (gives you 3 RC and -7 to be heard) meaning you can long burst at -2 or full burst at -6 (10P and 14P)
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...Check my sig and the Gunslinger for good guns.
Funny you should mention that, I really should thank you as I based the character off of a lot of the work you did for the "Ghost". Those characters were immensely helpful for our group.
I was using the Ruger Thunderbolt (Internal Smartgun, Personalized Grip, Chameleon Coating, Underbarrel Weight, and the Powered Folding Stock) but I guess I was looking for some sort of progression beyond that. It's weird for me to play a table top and not have some sort of "magic item" to strive for. We have an awesome story going on right now, and a group of solid role-players, but I'm still thinking of "Where does my character grow from here?"
...There is also the Thunderbolt that Umaro mentioned. It won't work with your specialization...
Is there a heavy pistol specialization? Or is it based on firing types? What spec would have worked?
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Hold-Outs, Revolvers, Semi-Automatics, Tasers
That's what the book lists, but it's not meant to be a complete list. They encourage players and GMs to pick/create more as long as they fit. The only general rule is that they shouldn't be something that will always work 100% of the time. As a GM, I don't know that I would allow a full Heavy Pistol specialization (that's just about the only pistols I ever seen used), but I'd probably allow Automatic Pistols (would cover the Salvette and Thunderbolt). I always allow specific models to be taken if the player wants as well too.
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Yeah, there simply are limits to how awesome the guns you can get are. There don't really exist pistols that are better than the Thunderbolt in general - there are pistols that are better at specific niches (Crash listed most of them that I can think of, the other is the Light Fire for its silencer-plus and the plastic holdout pistol thing for getting past MAD).
Do you have any other weapon skills? You might want to look into getting guns for some of them. Alternatively, if you post the full sheet over in Character Critique, you might be able to get some suggestions on useful things to purchase. Many characters want to get more 'ware rather than more guns.
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That's because the Thunderbolt is a burst fire weapon. It has three inline sequenced caseless rounds that fire at the same time.
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Personally, I second the Sakura Fubuki as pure awesomeness; with a 40-round capacity, though, you don't really need two of them, unless you want to split your dice-pools to drop more targets per phase. For mods, I'd go with slapping on an External Smartgun accessory, then mod it with Sound Suppressor, Chameleon Coat, and either Personalized Grip or Improved Range Finder... PG if dual-wielding, to replace the stock, IRF if single to let you fire in Medium Range with no penalties.
Also, since you can get anything if you pay the markup, I'd recommend a pair of Ares Viper Sliverguns loaded with Armor-Piercing Flichette ammo (+2 DV, -0 vs Impact AP, -20% range) and modded with Personalized Grip, Underbarrel Weight, Chameleon Coating, and a Barrel Extension (to counter the APF's range reduction). That way you can fire one 3RB from each gun on each IP with no penalties, firing one gun on each Simple Action.
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The Sakura Fubuki is, hands down, the best light pistol in the game. The only problem is that the 10(ml)x4 ammo loadout means that it takes a while to reload when you run dry, as opposed to slapping in a fresh clip (yes, CanRay, I said clip ;)). If I have the nuyen for it, I usually get two, one with ExEx (or APDS if I can get it), and one with SnS.
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IMHO the HK urban series are very good on the shelves weapons for an infiltrator.
Maybe it is worth having a look on it when availability in not a problem.
Otherwise morrissey elan and stick n shock is a good choice for a very compact weapon.
I have a personnal feeling for the fichetti 600 and the ares slivergun. They both come with extended ammos capacity and if you have access to some modification they can be used has a good support.
Add smartlink, electronic firing, skinlink, MAD3 and stick n shock + silencer for the fichetti and you have some very good side arms for an infiltration jobs.
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Yeah, there simply are limits to how awesome the guns you can get are. There don't really exist pistols that are better than the Thunderbolt in general - there are pistols that are better at specific niches (Crash listed most of them that I can think of, the other is the Light Fire for its silencer-plus and the plastic holdout pistol thing for getting past MAD).
Do you have any other weapon skills? You might want to look into getting guns for some of them. Alternatively, if you post the full sheet over in Character Critique, you might be able to get some suggestions on useful things to purchase. Many characters want to get more 'ware rather than more guns.
The only other weapon skills are Longarms(Sniper) and Automatics both at 2 a piece.
I'll post my character over there tomorrow.
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Personally, I would say that now is the time to get a pair of WW Infiltrators with all the bells and whistles... or to change your favorites Thunderbolts to lvl 3 Plasteel/Ceramic versions. Sure, that does nothing for damage, but if you favor infiltration, having weapons that will not trip MAD scanners is certainly a plus.
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The Sakura Fubuki is, hands down, the best light pistol in the game. The only problem is that the 10(ml)x4 ammo loadout means that it takes a while to reload when you run dry, as opposed to slapping in a fresh clip (yes, CanRay, I said clip ;)). If I have the nuyen for it, I usually get two, one with ExEx (or APDS if I can get it), and one with SnS.
Actually, in this case, clip would be an accurate term, I believe.
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Hmmm, what about a sawed-off Panther assault canon? Would that classify as a pistol?
Rasmus 8)
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Hmmm, what about a sawed-off Panther assault canon? Would that classify as a pistol?
Rasmus 8)
Maybe if you're a troll...
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Hmmm, what about a sawed-off Panther assault canon? Would that classify as a pistol?
Maybe if you're a troll...
Nah, it's at least the size of a sawed-off shotgun on 'em.
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High Power chambering is pretty good for pistol users, it lets you do some more damage and if your GM doesn't rule you need Restricted Gear for each 10 rounds of High Power then you could slap it on two guns of the same class and only need to buy RG once.
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High Power chambering is pretty good for pistol users, it lets you do some more damage and if your GM doesn't rule you need Restricted Gear for each 10 rounds of High Power then you could slap it on two guns of the same class and only need to buy RG once.
I'm already using ex-ex ammo, what is the benefit of using high powered rounds?
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They are not, in general, worth it. HP is a two-slot weapon mod that lets you fire HP rounds. They are +2 DV/-1 AP, so +1 DV better than Ex-Ex. However, you get -2 to hit when firing them. If you are so good that you can hit all the time even with -2, then they are on average 1/3 of a DV better. I'm not a big fan - I'd rather use SnS ammo on live targets, and Antitank rounds on drones and vehicles (where you care more about beating their armor than anything else).
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It really just depends on what kind of game you're playing. If the game uses dice pool caps, I like them toward the end of the cap. Once I've used up my +4/-4 and am hitting regularly, another -2 for 1 isn't that bad of a tradeoff. Especially on an assassin/infiltration weapon where I should be able to fire on an unknowing target (all hits = extra damage) and aim to my heart's content.
For some reason I thought High Power rounds added to recoil as well, but I guess I just imagined that. Personally I think a +1 recoil per round (including the first) would be much better than a static -2penalty. Then again, I like guns and lining up a .357 with .38 rounds isn't any harder really, it's the follow up shots that are harder.
I guess technically the AP Flechette's are almost always going to be better.
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Yeah, I mean, I can imagine niche situations, like a guy who has 26 dice in pistols but a dice cap of 20, where the HP rounds are worth it. But that's very niche. Another use is Adepts with Adept Centering and a relatively high initiate grade, because they can Center away that penalty.
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Also remember that once you mod a weapon for High Power rounds, that's all it can use from then on.
No Ex-Ex, no stick n shock, no gel rounds, etc.
-k
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Ya, but as a pistol user, carrying multiple guns for different ammo loads isn't that big of a deal.
A High Power Hatamoto or Warhawk makes for a very High Damage weapon to fire through barriers with, and the Funuki makes a wonderful S-n-S weapon.
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I dont see why any one would want to use HP ammo, it requires a special mod on the gun and gives the mentioned -2 to shooting pool, while only having -1 Ap over armor piercing fletchette that goes against impact armor witch on most opponent is likely to be more then 1 point lower then ballistic.*
And if your gm allows it, using APF round on Ares Viper gives you a burst capable gun with damage code of 8P -AP.
Or even better is loading a Super Warhawk with them for the epic damage code of 8P -2AP.
*This is why i much prefer my own version of the similar gun mod
[spoiler]Higher Caliber
Gun is modified to fire higher caliber bullets then it normally does, this gives the gun +1 to DV.
Ammo capacity is reduced by 25%(round up)
2 10 shop Weapon price + 2500¥ 10R[/spoiler]
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Or even better is loading a Super Warhawk with them for the epic damage code of 8P -2AP.
I'm pretty sure that the Super Warhawk is a production model of a higher caliber Warhawk. So if you allow that, then you should allow making a higher caliber of a higher caliber... Eventually, you get this monstrously huge single shot weapon that does a lot of damage.
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Or even better is loading a Super Warhawk with them for the epic damage code of 8P -2AP.
I'm pretty sure that the Super Warhawk is a production model of a higher caliber Warhawk. So if you allow that, then you should allow making a higher caliber of a higher caliber... Eventually, you get this monstrously huge single shot weapon that does a lot of damage.
Whut, what does that have to do with anything.
I was talking about loading the super warhawk with Armor Piercing Fletchette ammo(witch is pretty much better then High Power Ammo and doesn't require a special mod to the gun)
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All this makes me think of Mechwarrior's Sternsnacht pistol. .60+ caliber round, tiny clip and bulldrek for range.
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Forgive me if this was mentioned above, but:
If your GM has the Runner's Black Book, I suggest the Izom Armaments RP-63A - an SA/BF capable heavy pistol with 25(c), sound or thermal suppressor, powered slide mount(1), flashlight or lasersight, and a bargain at 5,100 nuyen. No internal RC, but some mods to it and suitable work-arounds and you can be blasting off 4 bursts a rounds 4 rounds before reloading... 8)
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Once again, no mention of the Slivergun... it's the only silenced weapon you can legally carry!
Large clip, burst fire. Don't let the AP fool you either: it allows it to be used as a non-lethal weapon ;)
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Once again, no mention of the Slivergun... it's the only silenced weapon you can legally carry!
Large clip, burst fire. Don't let the AP fool you either: it allows it to be used as a non-lethal weapon ;)
And Armor-Piercing Flichette ammo takes care of the AP problem, too, if you don't mind losing a bit of range.
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I feel that it needs to be stated that everyone involved so far is way too focused on the traditional "slug throwing" firearms. There hasn't even been a single mention of weapons which employ an alternative form of projectile.
Such as the Ares Redline Laser Pistol.
it does 5p damage, (standard heavy pistol damage) "AP -half" resisted with impact. fires in Semi-automatic and costs 7500 nuyen. all that unmodified!
plus you also find a skill to learn, yay karma!
Pg 41 of arsenal for full stats.
For all those that are already saying the GM won't allow it, I believe he did say any gun.
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Guns are on battleships. The Redline is a handheld electronic device.
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I feel that it needs to be stated that everyone involved so far is way too focused on the traditional "slug throwing" firearms. There hasn't even been a single mention of weapons which employ an alternative form of projectile.
Such as the Ares Redline Laser Pistol.
it does 5p damage, (standard heavy pistol damage) "AP -half" resisted with impact. fires in Semi-automatic and costs 7500 nuyen. all that unmodified!
Becouse it requiers it's very own skill to use, so not much use for a pistolier who would have to default.
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I feel that it needs to be stated that everyone involved so far is way too focused on the traditional "slug throwing" firearms. There hasn't even been a single mention of weapons which employ an alternative form of projectile.
Such as the Ares Redline Laser Pistol.
it does 5p damage, (standard heavy pistol damage) "AP -half" resisted with impact. fires in Semi-automatic and costs 7500 nuyen. all that unmodified!
Becouse it requiers it's very own skill to use, so not much use for a pistolier who would have to default.
And it requires taking Restricted Gear twice to acquire. Once for the weapon and once for the ammunition. Though if I remember right, you only need to buy one skill for any of the personal laser weapons (the really big ones being gunnery based).
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the restricted gear quality would be a problem in character creation true. However this appears to be in the middle of a campaign. Since there is nothing that could prevent a character from laying his hands on a the controls of a thor cannon should such a device appear in front of them (outside of the GM), I don't really think worrying about qualities is really an issue here.
also yes, I do admit that the pistolier is not likely to have the skill "Laser weapons." personally I'd take the time to learn the skill after the run. especially since the battery packs are rechargeable (thus finding ammo is not quite the problem many people think it is).
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also yes, I do admit that the pistolier is not likely to have the skill "Laser weapons." personally I'd take the time to learn the skill after the run. especially since the battery packs are rechargeable (thus finding ammo is not quite the problem many people think it is).
I really really wouldn't, there are tons of much more useful skills.
And really last think i want to use is a gun that does less damage if the bad guy is more then 10m away from me and even less if someone pops down a smoke grenade :o
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Hmmm, what about a sawed-off Panther assault canon? Would that classify as a pistol?
Rasmus 8)
Maybe if you're a troll...
Is it just me or does shadowrun bring a whole new world of "trolling"
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Hmmm, what about a sawed-off Panther assault canon? Would that classify as a pistol?
Rasmus 8)
Maybe if you're a troll...
Is it just me or does shadowrun bring a whole new world of "trolling"
Careful, people get beaten for that kind of racist talk. :P
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I feel that it needs to be stated that everyone involved so far is way too focused on the traditional "slug throwing" firearms. There hasn't even been a single mention of weapons which employ an alternative form of projectile.
Such as the Ares Redline Laser Pistol.
it does 5p damage, (standard heavy pistol damage) "AP -half" resisted with impact. fires in Semi-automatic and costs 7500 nuyen. all that unmodified!
Becouse it requiers it's very own skill to use, so not much use for a pistolier who would have to default.
And it requires taking Restricted Gear twice to acquire. Once for the weapon and once for the ammunition. Though if I remember right, you only need to buy one skill for any of the personal laser weapons (the really big ones being gunnery based).
Heck, throw 'em on an Arachne drone or Smart Firing Platform. Gunnery for everything!
-k
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Pintle mount on a Technical. ;D